Society of Payment Security Professionals - Payment Security Blog

1. 86 Responses to “Where does all the data go? - Hacker Underground”

2. By more info please on Jul 18, 2008

   I have researched these scammers after I was the victim of identity theft two years ago. There is one major online board left. It’s address is http://www.darkmarket.ws and was around long before cardersmarket. But it’s restricted access. I’d love to see what those thieves are doing now.

3. By Not Known on Aug 3, 2008

   what do you think? they are making money LOL

4. By Uncle Bob.. on Aug 5, 2008

   The past is prologue..

   http://www.darkoperations.net

5. By Uncle Bob.. on Aug 5, 2008

   (If they are a thief then what keeps them from selling the same data to multiple people and making even more money?)

   This has been done since the beginning of the carder boards. Many people sell data over and over, which is why so many victims are re-victimized over and over again. If you are a thief, why sell data only once? The thieves figure to make as much money as they can off of every piece of data they receive. An average carder is not going to know the difference unless it is a credit card - which would show as stolen when they check it before use. Standard informational data is re-sold over and over until fraud alerts are placed in a file, and then a carder would know the data is not workable, but only after its been sold a hundred times to a hundred different people.

   (Well, how do you know who to buy from on eBay? Reputation!)

   Hardly. These days a rep is nothing short of a signal that you are probably an LE plant. Not only that, reps are made via reviewers on the boards that are usually LE agents or Security people who are in positions of power on a board. Therefore if someone wants a review, he is reviewed usually by an LE agent or Security agent in disguise on the board. Which is why not all products get reviewed. If your product is average or plain jane, no one will review you. The only people that get reviewed these days are those who have products which LE or Security sees as something they wish to investigate.

   (That’s right carders would give each other feedback online to build their reputation.)

   This is not usually a method which can work these days, as security companies can come in and ruin a real reputation with a Sybill attack where they create nicks to defuse a vendors reputation just because they can or to keep the data from flowing to channels they feel it shouldn’t flow towards. A vendor today has many obstacles to selling the data he has, and that is just one of them.

   (Historically carders would sell their wares brazenly via online websites such as Boa Factory, CardersMarket, and ShadowCrew. These A-list credit card trading centers gave rise to hundreds of smaller sites such as TheftServices, CCPowerForums, ScandinavianCarding, DarkMarket, DarkPay, and The Grifters.)

   Most of the above boards outside of Carderplanet have been LE boards or boards where LE had a major stake in. The Darkmarket.ws board being one of the last men standing boards that stands out because it is amongst every other board you quoted that later proved to be in LE’s pockets. Doesn’t matter which LE, could be Canadian, Russian, USA, ICE, Postal Inspection etc. The fact that all of the boards so far mentioned have either been run or had LE in upper level positions makes Darkmarket.ws the last hold out as to whether it too is also compromised or ran by LE as well.

   (Boa Factory was run by Roman Vega, a Urkanian national, presently in jail in California.)

   Wrong. He is in New York. He was transfered there long ago when California gave him a release for time served based upon his plea agreement with authorities there. Just as he was to go home, New York indicted him for the same exact thing as he was charged with in California, only adding a few extra charges to make it impossible for him to be released. He then had to scuttle his California plea deal and now faces the man all the way, both in California and now in New York, making his release almost impossible into the foreseeable future.

   (He was king of the underground making large amounts of money selling passports, travelers checks, plastic cards, and “dumps” (what hackers call Track or Magnetic Stripe Data). Roman operated unique to all others in that he subcontracted work to lawyers, botnet owners, hackers, traffickers, and carders.)

   The funny thing about what he did was that he attracted the real scene people, you know, those straight guys who are straight only because they haven’t been caught doing anything yet. That is the difference between those who say they are law abiding citizens - when in fact they are only that way until they get caught doing something illegal. The line between straight people and criminals is definitely a small microscopic line.

   (Shadowcrew was a similar operation but operated as a message board for hackers to trade and exchange illegal credit card information such as “dumps”, CVV2 numbers, social security numbers (SSN), and much more. A hacker with the handle of Iceman ran the bulletin board and policed the illegal activities.)

   Wrong. Iceman ran Cardersmarket.com. Shadowcrew was run by in order of appearance:

   Kidd (Richard Stiles)(Security guy who founded the site and was never prosecuted)

   Macgyver (Kim Marvin Taylor)

   Gollumfun (Brett Johnson)(Secret Service informant)

   OTF (Kenneth Fluery)(Later an ICE informant)

   MR X (Secret Service informant)

   Theallseeingphantom (Jeff Duffet)

   Decepgal (Diane Avery)

   Deck (Andrew Mantovani)

   Agrivan (Name Unknown)

   Black Ops (David Appleyard)

   and a few other lessor known people all in the Firewall indictment.

   (Another member of that board ElMariachi disliked the operation and broke off forming another site called The Grifters.)

   Wrong. Thegrifters was formed in 2003 while Cardersmarket was formed in late 2005-2006 area of time. Before you write something please check your facts which are available on google free of charge. When you post this type of information it adds to the dis-information already out there - which only serves to confuse and confound the public at large as to what really goes on or what really happened.

   Remember, one textual mistake as the above causes another round of what really happened to start. Get it right the best you can and try as hard as you can to check your facts which are freely available to anyone who truly wants to check them before you post them. If you are this bad on the surface, you only make your blog look useless down the road to those who depend on PCI compliance and everything you say being accurate and true. If you are so wrong above, then what else are you wrong about that you post? I think you get my point.

   (Iceman and ElMariachi disliked each other in ways never imagined.)

   You got that right. It was intense hatred - and still continues to this day. He wants to piss on my grave and I want to piss on his. I am an old man - and he is a youngster in prison working his way through the Virginia prosecutors office at the moment trying to see if he can get a softer sentence for his past crimes and get out early enough to piss on my grave before I can piss on his in prison. Wonder who will get to piss first?

   Stay tuned as you are wont to say in your blog…

   (You can read even more about this via a compilation of news articles from CanWest News Service.))

   That was the Cybermobs story and had nothing to do with Iceman, Cardersmarket or anything else other than Shadowcrew.

   If you want to read anything about that series of incidents on Cardersmarket in the news you can read the USA today article on Iceman which I had been sourcing that low life Byron Achido or whatever his name was.

   (Once law enforcement took down one message board another would pop up, and the carders and buyers would migrate their operations. CardersMarket was the largest of the last online carder forums. It was run by, you guessed it, Iceman. When the police took down CardersMarket they arrested Iceman (aka Max Ray Butler, Max Vision, Digits, Aphex.))

   And many others along the way. Matter of fact when they closed down CM they (LE) were the ones to turn out the lights. By that time there was hardly anyone left to arrest on Cardersmarket, so the operation was closed and Iceman was finally removed.

   (Law Enforcement (LE) quickly caught on and started shutting down each of these online sites.)

   Not true. The boards continue to pop up, but no one believes in them anymore - other than lame kiddy carders who think that their board is the next one to take over. LE never shutters a site that has a program, the only one’s that get shut down are those that are NOT a part of the program, leaving the one’s up that LE has a large hand in operating, supporting or otherwise gaining enough arrests. However these boards are very limited these days, and soon it will be over with the closure of Darkmarket.ws as the last of those boards will finally close down the carding scene as it was from 2002-200?.

   (These days the online message boards have all but disappeared with the carders moving to older technology as their last resistance against law enforcement.)

   And pray tell what older technology are you speaking of? They haven’t disappeared, they were taken over by hacker boards who control all of the information they get now - and none of them leak that info to some lame carders, as carders are thought of now as low life lamer wannabees.

   (Now that we have identified the ‘carders’ of the underground, the next article in this series will focus on the actual flow of credit card data - from the POS to the point of monetization. We will also explore how this channel is similar to the current housing market and why prices are so low. Stay tuned.)

   The prices are low because demand is soft because everyone has been arrested and or gets arrested very quickly leaving the scene dead as a doorstop. The other reason is because security is now at an all time high in the retail sector, and all the old ops of the past are now dead because of it. Security companies have closed almost every major hole in the ops of the past, leaving only skimming and sniffing data trails from open ports on major retailers POS as a last bastion of fraud that is left to make money from. When that is closed up, there will probably be an end to online fraud, unless someone comes up with a newer or better way for everyone to make money. If a new way is not brought out, it will finally die - and the result will be massive layoffs in the security industry when the flow of information dries up and the threat level tones down. Of course 5 years after that it will spring back up, but until then allot of people are going to be looking for work, and allot of security people wont find it. I can say this, it’s going to be a reverse of the boards now in the security sector. If you think that your job is safe, think again, people eventually catch on to the scams of fear - and when they do, you guys will be out on your assess quicker than all the boards went down.

   As you said, stay tuned…

6. By Michael Dahn on Aug 8, 2008

   @Uncle Bob, thank you very much for the detailed comment you left. I appreciate that you can update and correct the information provided. If you have more information to add please do and continue to check back frequently.

7. By E. Allen on Aug 14, 2008

   “Uncle Bob”
   You have made many posts across a lot of blogs and websites, and you always post the same semi-truths.
   You should preface your posts with the admission that you are “El Mariachi” otherwise known as David Renshaw Thomas, and one of those criminal carders mentioned in the news reports detailing the shadowcrew arrests. Calling out other cyber-crooks and pointing fingers at them doesn’t make what you did (and do) any less kosher. David Thomas did a stint as an FBI informant, from what I have gathered following the case of Shadowcrew. Clearly, the FBI has a horrendous lack of concern regarding their informants undermining investigations or continuing to run their scams. I’ve read that of the actual informants, two have been charged for committing crimes while working for the police. These informants/cybercrooks are:
   Brett Shannon “Gollumfun” Johnson http://www.wired.com/politics/law/news/2007/06/secret_service
   Albert “Segvec” Gonzalez -http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2008/08/11-charged-in-m.html
   and http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2008107034_hack12.html

   You, Mr. Thomas, are also a paid informant by your own admission, and have been canvassing many blogs and websites posting your revised version of your own personal history and criminal involvement with these websites. I believe, sir, you should apologize for the thefts and crimes you committed prior to your arrest rather than attempting to downplay your culpability.

8. By E. Allen on Aug 18, 2008

   El Mariachi, or should I say David R. Thomas, you are one of the lowest kinds of identity thieves around. You took your share of stolen money, when you were caught stealing and carding. Did you EVER apologize to the victims from your crimes? No? Then die and shut up already, thief.

   When you want to post names of informants, dont post your worthless disinformation, post the REAL informants (and practicing identity thieves) You, Decepgal (Diane Avery), Voleur (Omar Dhanyani, who was busted for money laundering in February 27, 2003, then is “hand-picked” by Gonzalez (Cumbajohny) to be the official egold-cash money changer on Shadowcrew, then there’s the cop Lord Cyric. Post their names, why don’t you?

   Post how you got your close friend John Dillinger busted. Funny how anyone and everyone that got close to you, even if they WEREN’T committing crimes but only chatting with you got busted.

   You fed the cops as much bullshit as you have been feeding these blogs and message forums.

9. By haskill on Aug 19, 2008

   there is a factual error in Thomas’ report over the formation of “thegrifters.com” website. he did not start it after disagreements with or disliking iceman, thegrifters.com was established by the FBI as a sting operation. “el mariachi” was just a paid informant.

10. By odin_dax on Oct 14, 2008

    I survived ShadowCrew, CM, Grifters, DM and CardthePlanet. As much as I miss those days, I’m glad everything got shut down. I was an information gatherer at the time, but I was certainly tempted to take it up a notch. Lack of focus in those days…

    Rule #1) Never trust anybody online. The only rule you need. And, yes, everybody does look upon carders as lamers. Rightfully so…

    Still, I do wonder what happened to Lord Cyric, DarkRain, El and c0rrupted0ne. (Guys, I can be found using Google. Good day.)

    ~One of the good guys, odin_dax

11. By (Rattpuke)Dillingers brother on Dec 22, 2008

    Uncle Bob A.K.A. El Mariachi. John Dillinger is waiting for you to write him a letter. He’s sitting MDC Brooklyn. You owe him a letter, at least that.

12. By Sid on Jan 1, 2009

    El Mariachi
    Dillinger keeps asking me why you never write him. he’s in federal and would like to keep in touch.

13. By ezekiel on Jan 7, 2009

    El has been MIA for months. Please get in touch El.

14. By Th0r on Jan 11, 2009

    Decepgal where are ye? Decepgal was another victim of David Renshaw Thomas, Convicted burglar, convicted identity thief and known rat-snitch. Diane Avery of Florida was set up by Thomas in the “King Op”, thats the name Thomas called it by. He would get pins from King Arthur on Carderplanet and then give them out to his Grifters cronies, which was just a setup by the FBI. Decepgal bailed that loser Thomas out of jail, and all she got for it was to be setup. But then she goes on to set up her own sting forum, called Cardercrew.com also Muzzfuzz.com.

    Dillinger was also a major rat on thegrifters.net, only he double-crossed the FBI like Gollumfun and Cumbajonny, so like those two he get to go to jail as well.

    David Renshaw Thomas is nothing more than a convicted burglar and a convicted identity thief who tried to scam the FBI into making him into some sort of superstar informant. Rotsa Ruck Rat!

15. By (Rattpuke)Dillingers brother on Jan 19, 2009

    to Thor,

    How well do you know Dillinger? I know him very well…and he was NOT a rat on the grifters.

16. By Robert on Jan 23, 2009

    He spent years moderating and adminstering Thegrifters, anticarder, any number of El Mariachi’s pet FBI projects, and never indicted for CC fraud, only the drug charges. He copped a drug bust while he was informing for the FBI. He was cashing out ATMs for Thomas/FBI and no indictment? Of course he was a rat, and part of Thomas’ crew of snitches.

    El’s (Uncle Bob, Bob your uncle) agenda is to trash talk all the actual (past or present) carder members who outed him as a rat, and cover up for the rats he himself set up. That’s why there’s no mention of Decepgal, Dillinger, or TG as a sting site. Half the members of TG were feds, security people (NCFTA and the like), and reporters Thomas invited to the site.

    Mr. X an informant? Based on what, pure speculation on El’s part, and because his ego demands that if he got caught and started snitching then everyone who gets caught snitches. OTF is DDT? DDT was still active and posting online when OTF was in prison. All his “evidence” Macgyver was a rat is pure speculation, based on his proximity to some members who were busted. El never exposes real rats. Why no mention? Oh yeah, the feds can’t have their snitches outing other snitches. They can only plant FUD against real carders, like Iceman. When El did let his rage run out of control and threatened to expose CJ, the feds ordered him to backoff. One thing El doesn’t like is other snitches stealing his thunder.

    Everyone overlooks the fact that cops don’t indict someone they want to plant as an informant. You don’t issue press releases about a member being busted if you plan to use that member as a snitch. Defeats the purpose, doesn’t it? Only when a snitch gets busted committing a new crime will the Feds indict them, and issue a press release, and when that happens its big news. So far it’s happened to these known snitches - ExCFO, Gollumfun and Cumbajonny. John Dillinger can now be added to that group.

    Of the admins from SC, the ones indicted as a result of a major undercover operation are not snitches. They were the ones being targeted. Once you indict a member, that member has no use whatsoever as a “insider” or informant. Their nic becomes useless, it becomes a nic to avoid at all costs. Feds and their civilian counterparts are perfectly adept at creating their own nics (Master Splyner). To use an informant to creat a brand new nic is to invite trouble, such as betrayals and tipping off former partners, which is precisely what Cumbajonny did.

    To summarize Shadowcrew and other boards, since EL has done such an effective brainwashing on the mass legions of reporters and the clueless, here’s the breakdown -
    CJ - the snitch that worked with SS to convert SC from a legit carding board to a sting site. Not indicted.
    Deck - target of the operation. Indicted and convicted.
    OTF - target of the operation. Indicted and convicted.
    Macgyver - target of operation, but questionable. Indicted.
    Maksik - target of operation. Indicted and convicted.
    Gollumfun - target who flipped, not indicted in Op Firewall.
    Script - ? Not indicted, but connected to CP.
    Blackops - target of operation. Indicted and convicted.
    Iceman - target of operation, Indicted and soon to be convicted.

    I could go on but you get the picture. Quit buying into El Mariachi’s drama rantings, he needs to accept he ratted on his own friends and became the very thing he used to bitch about (a lowly convicted criminal rat snitch). If there’s a public indictment and conviction of a member, then that member is not a snitch, the only exception to that rule is when the snitch got caught committing a new crime, then they are made examples of.

    Show me the indictments against the TG admins, the sting site ran by the FBI. Oh yeah, there arent any. Guess we should assume they all became rats?

17. By (Rattpuke)Dillingers brother on Jan 24, 2009

    To Robert,

    He was convicted for drugs and he was also convicted for identity theft. He was never a rat. The F.B.I. was giving him account numbers thru EL so they could not get him on those charges. They never had evidence of him carding and I talked to the F.B.I. agent that handled his case and he told me they never knew who he was until they found the I.D. card that he used some one else’s name. I know the whole case from my brother (DILLINGER) and the F.B.I. and I know all about EL as well. You also have to consider that if you are into carding, it is illegal and should have nothing bad to say about anyone when the carders are nothing better than thieves themselves…which makes them all liars and should never be trusted. My brother was looking at 28 years and out of that he is going to do 8. He had nothing to tell because everyone uses nicknames online to hide their true identity. I really don’t understand how you can say that you are all friends in this when my brother was arrested not one person stood up to do anything but hide. Not one person sent any money to him in jail, or to even write. My brother tells me everything and he told me that there was nothing to tell. El won’t even try to contact him or me. There is NO honor amongst thieves.

    Rattpuke

18. By Robert on Jan 26, 2009

    Funny, how Thomas himself complained about being “abandoned” when he was arrested, as though that alone excused his reprehensible behavior turning rat. He verbally abused “Decepgal” a friend of his on Shadowcrew (Diane Avery) into bailing himout of jail, then se sets her up as part of his “King Op”. (She’s since turned informant herself).

    But for you to claim “Dillinger” was not a informant is beyond belief, either your’e covering for him or you are truly ignorant of what he was doing.

    Take a look in the wayback machine to the TheGrifters circa 2004/5 and you will a member named “Dexer” who was trying to get reviewed for the sale of counterfeit bills on that site. His reviewers were El Mariachi and John Dillinger - and JD was even using his REAL NAME for the review.

    Here is a PDF copy of that post/review, d/l:
    http://www.4shared.com/file/82679296/37d4327c/Dexer_Review.html

    The address your “brother” was using was -

    JohnDillinger
    Steven L. Roberts
    2260 El Cajon Blvd. #910
    San Diego, CA 92104
    Address is for: POSTAL CONVENIENCE CENTER at (619) 295-3760

    I don’t mean to post such info but it is a matter of public record and is available on Google from TheGrifter cached pages.

    This “review” which was conducted and posted on a forum run by the FBI was only one of many clues that JD was a rat, and El Mariachi’s right hand man in all things connected to TheGrifters.

    And it’s tough to refute David Thomas’s own words that the King Op was what he used to set up Decep and JD.

19. By Robert on Jan 28, 2009

    My last post was not approved by the moderator? Did we lose the freedom to post on this site?

    First off, “Dillinger’s Brother”, let’s face some facts. David Thomas has admitted he was working for the FBI undercover and the site TheGrifters was a sting operation. Thomas then went on a bender trying to expose Alber Gonzalez as a rat, which one can only assume means Thomas couldn’t stand any competition. I myself am not a “carder” as you seem to imply rather snarkily, on the contrary I follow online fraud extensively for reasons of my own. I find the contributions made by Mr. Thomas to be wholly self-serving and NOT in the interest of any reputable anti-crime or anti-fraud organization. He exists solely to promote himself as a pseudo Frank Abignale and failing miserably at it. In fact Thomas’s “Shadowcrew the Book” web site was stolen verbatim from a CNN reporter and Thomas byline was stolen verbatim from Abignale himself. Harldy the actions of a truly “reformed” criminal.

    Regarding your “brother” John Dillinger, there is a cache of TheGrifters, AntiCarders, UIN, MetalShop and other web sites ran by Thomas/Mariachi that clearly indicate John Dillinger was deeply involved in the day to day operation of those sites and intimately involved in the sting operations taking place their. I offered a download link to Dillinger’s “review” of Dexer, a counterfeit-note distributor (perhaps that is why the moderator chose not to allow my last post?) I could also provide a copy of a post by Dillinger/Mariachi called “The crying shame of an 800,000 dollar Op” where Dillinger, posting as an admin on TheGrifters.net, tried to cajole another member who wanted to vanish, into getting back into “cashing out” ATMs.

    Dillinger joins the ranks of Cumbajohnny and Gollumfun as an undercover informant on a sting “carding” site who then got busted AGAIN while working undercover. If anything, he should be made an example of.

20. By Robert on Jan 28, 2009

    Here is the link for John Dillingers “review” of Dexer as it was posted on TheGrifters.net. It’s an interesting view into the world of these carder operations:

    http://www.4shared.com/file/82679296/37d4327c/Dexer_Review.html?s=1

    Here is a link for John Dillinger’s post on TheGrifters.net called “The crying shame of an 800,000 dollar Op, AND THE Mythinator”

    http://www.4shared.com/file/82891578/b2ed38e/TheGriftersNet_800K_dollar_Op.html

    Oh, and an apology to this web site, my lost post may have been held up due to my proxy usage.

21. By (Rattpuke)Dillingers brother on Jan 31, 2009

    To Robert,

    I spoke to Dillinger the other night and told him about our conversations. He wants you to write him so he can respond in his own words and tell you the truth. If you would like to converse with him, we can make arrangements so I can give you his address. I’m not sure about putting his address in a blog.

    Rattpuke

22. By Robby on Feb 1, 2009

    Ask him this and post the answer in public:

    How can someone busted in 2004 as part of the King Op not be indicted until late 2006? What happened in in those two intervening years? I’ll hazard a guess - that was when he was part of the “Grifters” FBI sting.

    Same can be said for all the admins of TheGrifters, including Lord Cyric. All of them were snitches and rats. JD just happened to catch a new charge while working with the feds. It happens.

    My beef is with these so-called undercover operations that cause great harm to the American public. Albert Gonzalez, alias Cumbajohhny, was a nobody script-kiddie hacker when he was busted for ripping off atms. But under the feds, he became a serious online “gangsta”, owner of the most notorious crime forum, and gains connections into the Russian cybergangs, where he then goes on to pull one of the biggest identity and credit card data heists to date - TJX and DSW were the criminal activity of a Secret Service undercover operative, aided, abetted and facilitated by the United States Secret Service. How many crimes were aided and abetted by the FBI during the Grifters run? How many new crimes did the admins of the Grifters commit while working for the FBI? I’m sure we’ll never know.

    ps: JD’s address is available in BOP.gov

23. By (Rattpuke)Dillingers brother on Feb 2, 2009

    Hello Robert,

    In the first place in the year 2004 and 05 he was in Tacoma living at my house while I was in freaking Iraq dodging bombs and bullets working for our troops as a mechanic in Tikrit. A few months after I came back our father was told he had cancer and we were with him on and off until he passed away in May right after my B-day and JD was so upset he started doing drugs again and got busted 3 weeks after the funeral in 2006.

24. By (Rattpuke)Dillingers brother on Feb 2, 2009

    For Robert,

    I received a letter from JD today and he wanted me to post this:

    All the time on the grifters I really thought EL was my friend. I never thought in a hundred years he was working with the feds, and I never knew that the grifters was a sting operation. El told me 3 to 4 weeks the whole truth before I was busted, and I still couldn’t believe it. My reason for not believing this is that I was not getting busted with all the crime I was committing and EL always knew my real name and knew where I lived and all the while I stayed out of jail.

    He goes on to say that he was a fool for doing what he did and deserves the time. I have spoken to EL myself and feel that he does really like JD and tried to help me get him out of jail but for me…he did it to himself.

    My brother stated “It’s not if you get busted, it’s when you get busted.” He was busted with 24 Id’s and an MSR 206 along with a bunch of blank plastic. Segvec is actually Mr. Gonzales (A.K.A.) Cumbajohnny.

    He asks you to Google: Global trail of an online crime ring. Seems that the feds had a dog off his leash…Gonzales (A.K.A.) Cumbajohnny (A.K.A.) Soupnazi was in fact admin of Shadowcrew. Segvec handed out hacked pins to many members of the carding scene and I never knew it until just a few months ago. He also asks you to do your research before you start accusing.

    He wants you to post any proof on this blog of him working with the feds…like court documents or what ever…to back up your claims.

    If you do have his address, then write him.

    Rattpuke

25. By Robert on Feb 7, 2009

    Rattpuke, your brother told you, “All the time on the grifters I really thought EL was my friend. I never thought in a hundred years he was working with the feds, and I never knew that the grifters was a sting operation.”

    That is completely false. El Mariachi himself said otherwise. Read the Wired magazine article “Crime Boards Come Crashing Down.”

    I can’t post links here so look it up yourself on Wired-dot-com. Go to page 3. Here is a quote from that article, and keep in mind this is being said by Mariachi himself:

    “For a time, Thomas kept TheGrifters online and turned it into an “anti-carding site” with a few associates, including “John Dillinger.”

    “Of his associates from TheGrifters, only Dillinger knows about his work for the FBI.”

    Now there is a member from TheGrifters.net named “Myth”. He was part of David Renshaw Thomas’ “King Arthur” operation. That operation was about El Mariachi receiving stolen or phished ATM cards with pins to be cashed out at the ATM. El, as part of his undercover duties for the FBI, passed these cards/pins on to “targets”, members that were being setup as part of the sting. John Dillinger was one of those members. So was Decepgal, Craptacular, Myth, and who knows how many others Grifters members. After busting JD they brought him into the “fold”, in Mariachi’s own words, and used him to lure in more suspects. I copied a post made by Dillinger where, as an ADMIN on TG, he was acting the “enforcer” to get Myth to come back to the site and “pay up” his cut for cashing out stolen ATM cards. Myth, had possibly turned scammer and bailed on TG with his ill-gotten gains, a black eye for the FBI. No wonder it was John Dillinger, Steven L. Roberts, who went after him as the enforcer and suckered him back to the FBI and a set of shiny cuffs.

    That more than any of the other hundred anecdotes, should be more than enough to satisfy any suspicions that your brother turned rat. Because the court does not make available public records of who works for the Federal police in an undercover role, it’s impossible to “prove” he was a rat, only two of the Shadowcrew informants have had their roles exposed and that was after they committed new crimes while associated with the police.

    Here is a link to the Grifters post made by JD regarding Myth. I can’t post live links so copy/past as needed.

    geocities(dot)com/jdillinger76/index.html
    Replace (dot) with “.”

    Sorry to hear of your family tragedy, and I do thank you for your service to your country.

26. By So What? on Apr 16, 2009

    There is so much miss information on here that is all self serving.
    Lets try and get some perspective here.I am in no way defending EL or anyone here.

    To anyone looking for EL like ezekiel and JDS brother,he is now MIA since just after DM went down.Why he is gone is anyone’s guess.He could have another gig working for the Feds or my guess another job working for some security agency.He did work after TG that took him to Europe.Though he would never admit it his job was to gather intel on criminals.No matter how you spin it.He will do Anything to make money.He does not care who he hurts rats.It is all about him and his delusions and his belief that he is some how special and is owed some thing back.He has fooled so many people so many times,his time has run out.I could conclude that cause Dm went down in a way he described that maybe some one decided to employ him again.Who Know’s for sure.
    TG was a sting and best anyone call tell is that it was as El described a Intel gathering op.That would explain why those that cashed out did not get busted.It is true that all those that were on TG like JD and LC would have had there IPS logged and there real IDS known.It is also true that no one knows for sure what the FBI did with that intel.El says that it was a way for the FBI to see what was going on.ON TG there was more than just EL as a Rat.A few posters were busted un known to EL and what were they up to.Who knows?The FBI wont tell us what they did,so we have to take ELS word.Anyone that has ever dealt with EL will know he is un stable and a totally self serving person.Why is LC still about?
    LC never used proxys and so forth and was also a Admin on DM?Maybe the Feds like all the friction caused by a LC and leave them alone.No one knows for sure everything that went down.El would like to spin it that he was a saviour of Kids.No way he was out for himself in any way that could happen.I agree with some of your posts.There is no Stiles aka Kidd who was a Fed.That is all El doing math and getting it so wrong.EL sees rats were none exist.El will also lie and make anything up as long as it suits his need’s at that time.NO lie is to great to tell and no lie to small.
    No doubt he did everything he could to make himself out to be a good guy.Nothing is farther from the thuth.EL would not know reality if it slapped him in the face.

    That said there is much that El has posted that is not true or just plain made up and that is because he either does not know the truth or has convinced himself that he know’s more than those that were there.
    To the poster that suggested that EL knew who Gonzalez was is also writing from there percespective and like El is also telling us there version of events.EL had no idea who Albert was and if he did he would have outted him in a hreatbeat.Those that knew who Albert was were those that Knew he was involved in SC they were the people we warned prior to SC going down.Robert i am guessing you are also some one that is not in the security world.There was posts like yours on some other places.My guess is you are Blackops or OTF you are one of the old SC guys and seen as MAC is dead it there are only a few people you can be..The reason i am so sure is this.You post some some stuff that only people from than would know.

    Let me put the record straight about some of your Statements.

    OTF was arrested in May 2004 that is 5 months or so before Firewall and he was not charged in that Case till 06.No one had any clue that he had being arrested till his second case hit the news in 06.We have seen the case and he became a Rat.No ifs and buts.He went back to SC and not a person knew he had being busted.Than a few weeks later Fargo and co are busted.OTF was charged for cashing citi PINS.Fargo was working for the same team.We do not recall OTF ever posting in the “Fargo Busted Thread” that he himself was busted.How can you say he was not a Rat.You cannot as you did not know when he showed back on SC that he was busted.No one did.If you did like all the Admins there told no one shit.
    Was OTF DDT.Whom ever DDT was he made one big mistake he posted information on a Board as DDT and the information he posted only people that worked in that op knew the names involved.OTF knew the names cause he was in the op.DDT would not have known the name as he was not.That and IPS out of Ohio a few times may just have given it away.That and DDT never posted untill after OTF was out.Sure DDT said he was the a mod on SC called?I cannot recall one of the last mods that came on.There is now way that Mod had the data that DDT had.Only some one from back in the day like OTF would have that.
    The issue about Phantom and Mr X being Rats all came from DDT.We than researched those case’s and found out that Yes Phantom was working for the Feds.Cmon did the posts on SC from jail not ring any bells of alarms.LOL
    MR X sure looked like he had being busted and had helped the Feds.
    JD there is talk that he had a deal that fell through after he was busted.We will not go into details suffice to say he was going to help the Feds.
    There was Talk that the Pins that JD cashed were the Feds setting up JD via SEgvec.My belief is that it was Segvec aka Gonzalez using JD as a casher.You have to understand Segvec had being hacking those networks during and after SC.He had up toward 40 million cards not all debits.There was People getting Busted left and right because of those Pins.No one Knew who Segvec was at that time.Sure El thought it was the Feds giving out pins.I knew that there was no way the Feds give out 500 pins and than do n not want the cash.JD did not pay all the money to Segvec and Segvec never asked for it back.JD cashed out pennys compared to others that were caught.JDS biggest mistake was to he did not get busted after TG.He decided to follow EL into the new TG.He was still posting he was on the straight and narrow.He was not he was still at shit.In a way he was rubbing the Feds nose’s in it.On one hand he is calling out Gollum and on the other doing shit.So when he went back on the Meth he fucked up end off.Plain and simple.
    There was those that asked at the Time how come TG was never busted and how come EL and JD were out.
    El did what he did and that is convince those posters that he was ok.He was asked time and time again was he a Rat.Off couse he never answered till he did that Wired interview.You can see right than and there,that he was willing to out himself as a Rat so that he could get some fame.Regardless that fame was him being a Pariah.JD was and still is stupid.The dope and him calling LE got him busted and than the State gave his case to the Feds.
    I will go to bat and say hear and now JD was no Rat before he was busted.Would he do a deal now.Who knows.
    Why was he sent to MDC in Manhattan after being in a Hospital?

    To post some thing El said.Just cause JD knew EL was a Rat does not make JD one.
    man you have no idea how many people knew Gonzalez was the SC rat.Im talking about the people he did business with and those on the Boards he warned pre SC going down.Just cause you were one of the ones he did not give a heads up to,does not make you in any way have way decent to speak about this.
    You are doing what EL did and that is adding two and two and getting 10.WE know cause we were there first hand from SC to the new TG to DM and than some.
    Again you are wrong just cause some one is busted and jailed does not mean the Feds have no intrest.Yes the person is tainted and may not work.The Feds do what they do.
    He was not a CI before he was busted.We understand that he still stands a chance is having some of that Time taken off.

    Decepgal there is enough proof that she was never a citizen and if you want i can show you proof that at the very least make’s her look like a UC from her days as a Admin on SC.How did a woman that never did shit become a Admin on a board.I soppose all the nice PMS helped.
    Your argument that cause the Feds indict means they are not suspect is bullshit.Most of The SC people arrested did deals with the Feds a few did not,most did.By that i mean they co-operated with the Feds and were given 51kS in some case’s there sentence’s were dropped from 10 years to 2.Yes they may not have gone back on the Boards and become CIS.They could have done as little as told there story.

    Yes the Feds would prefer that some one is sent back out with out history.I can blow your whole theory right here,
    Gonzalez when busted in 03 did get charged in New Jersey.He was arrainged by Patty Shwartz.The case was opened and let there.After Firewall he was allowed leave New York and was released from his bail and pre trial and was under the supervison of the probation dept in Miami.He was working for the Feds for a long ass time after Firewall.You claim that those that are Like Gonzalez have no charges.Again you are so wrong.The only reason no one found out is no one Knew his real name.If anyone had Known who he was,It would have being printed and he may have had a tougher time.He was charged and that case was just sitting there with no activity.The reason for that was they intended in holding that over him.So your whole point that they do not indict charge the Real Rats is wrong.The Feds do what they want, when they want.

    As to the post that the Federal Court does not allow one to see who turn is absolute tripe.It is simple to see what one has done for the Fed unless the case is sealed.In most of the SC case’s they are not sealed.You can see that most got 51ks.For those that do not know;A 51 k is what the DA hands a judge in the Federal system so the person can have there sentence reduced.I have no idea were you are getting your information but it is false.
    Most of the Guys in Firewall had there case’s posted online and most did a deal.
    You also have a desire to put your take on events out there like EL did.The reason we are only now hearing from you is if you are who we think you are.You are coming of probation and want to tell it like you see it.
    Anyone looking to talk about any of this Like ezekiel email me i really want to talk to you.NO i am not EL.

    Email me at mademanok@gmail.com

27. By wellcome home on Apr 16, 2009

    Quote.

    “How can someone busted in 2004 as part of the King Op not be indicted until late 2006? What happened in in those two intervening years? I’ll hazard a guess - that was when he was part of the “Grifters” FBI sting.”

    WTF what is this a whole slew of new Intel to try and convince the world that JD was busted during the TG years.
    You yourself suggested that the SC admins were all indicted and thus could not have being CIS?
    I have re bunked that garbage in the previous post.
    Yet..you are saying that everyone that worked in the King op was busted and turned.So wrong So wrong.
    The FBI and the Feds have many many times allowed ops like the King one during there investigations.IN all of them there are people used that commit crimes that do not get busted.That is just the way it is.I do not like it.The Feds have there set of rules that they bend as they see fit.
    LC no one know’s for sure what his role was anywere he was a ol skooler for the phone hack days.
    He never used security up to DM his real name and id is well known and yet never busted.One can conclude that he was a agent of some sort for Canada.One thing is sure he took on all of ELS pet hates and than some.EL did not have the ability to get that Beefs he had online while he was Rat,are not real beefs.To El they were real.That is the type of madness he lives in.El has no idea were reality starts and stops.
    That some guy’s cashing out did not get busted while on TG is nonsense.I have no love for any those mope’s i also do not like to see some one posting years late and way off the mark!

    You are now posting like EL did and making out 4 years after the fact that all those guys were corrupt or busted.
    Man you are so late.The job you are trying to do badly i might add has being done years ago.There were plenty of people that posted all the links to TG long before EL made it public.
    I am now sure that you are who i think you are.You remind me of DDT.
    DDT came along with all this bull!!!It was He that gave EL and LC any mojo so to speak.DDT was if not OTF some one with a beef on the SC and what went down.It was felt at the time that DDT had some goal.That goal looked a lot like some one repenting he went out of his way to post about Obvious people that looked suspect.

    Though you have tryed to suggest OTF was not some Rat than im guessing that though, you grabbed some of the TG site from ELS old Darkoperations site.You missed all the Threads that posted the case’s and all there deal’s with the Feds.You seem to be doing an awfull lot of selective thinking and posting.

    This hiding behind you are some joe public that is pissed that Albert was made by the FBI is just front.So you can post your version of events.Why hide behind a proxy if you are legit?You really remind me of Blackops!
    Blackops the same guy who begged that judge not to jail him.Yep we read all the letter’s that he asked people to write for him.That and the claim he had ADD and that is what caused his surreal fall into the world of SC.BOPS the man who lived the ultimate lie.The one that made out he was the “Real Deal’.Yet BO called LE when Banking101 got wind off all the goings on in Seattle.Remember that?You have the Nerve to say that he was never a Rat.Calling LE and having some one on the Run busted cause he is upsetting the apple cart is as ratty as one can get.That is exactly the shit that BO did.BO the Admin that was a criminal that did no crime and Wanted to be a man of power.
    Were were you the last 4 years.While other’s in the same boat as you did post.You said nothing to afraid that Pre trial or Probation would cart you of to jailYou pussy.
    Now you come on Blogs using the nic”Robert” which is a odd nic to use considering the last few years.
    Here is the rub you come out years late and start doing a EL making up shit that is not true.
    Another thing you fail to relise is this.Not only are there multiple CIS and UCS and so on every board.Many are security agents and many are just there to gleam up intel for all those business’s that report daily about crime online.You do not seem to get just how things have moved on and yet stayed the same.

    I will leave you with JedimasterC remember him.He worked for the FBI the SS the Local LE for five years straight and had many people busted.Thats a Rat.

28. By Do Tell! on Apr 18, 2009

    Robert,

    Now there is a member from TheGrifters.net named “Myth”. He was part of David Renshaw Thomas’ “King Arthur” operation. That operation was about El Mariachi receiving stolen or phished ATM cards with pins to be cashed out at the ATM. El, as part of his undercover duties for the FBI, passed these cards/pins on to “targets”, members that were being setup as part of the sting. John Dillinger was one of those members. So was Decepgal, Craptacular, Myth, and who knows how many others Grifters members. After busting JD they brought him into the “fold”, in Mariachi’s own words, and used him to lure in more suspects. I copied a post made by Dillinger where, as an ADMIN on TG, he was acting the “enforcer” to get Myth to come back to the site and “pay up” his cut for cashing out stolen ATM cards. Myth, had possibly turned scammer and bailed on TG with his ill-gotten gains, a black eye for the FBI. No wonder it was John Dillinger, Steven L. Roberts, who went after him as the enforcer and suckered him back to the FBI and a set of shiny cuffs.

    You posted the post above.Were are you getting that information from were you say JD was busted and brought back into the fold?
    That is not from a posts on any boards and the quote is also not in wired.So one has to ask were are you getting it from?
    If you are right than i am wrong and i would like to know the Truth?

    If as you say Decepgal and JD were all turned than show is the proof and how you have it.You are also making out the LC was also busted than as well.We posted for years that we thought like you do.We backed off on some people cause we were not sure.
    You have some insight here or you are making shit up.

    How would you know exactly what JD did when no one else does.That would mean you were some what involved some were?

29. By Do Tell! on Apr 18, 2009

    You also posted some thing from the Admin panel that was not taken from the Darkoperations site as best i can tell.
    That would mean you some how have that site backed up as well.The only people that have that are EL and the Feds.Which leads one to ask who exactly are you?
    If you are a Fed that you are about one of the only people that would know the truth.I have read your posts again and i am wondering are you right and i am wrong?

30. By Robert on May 2, 2009

    Based on the fact you accuse me of “hiding behind a proxy” I’ll assume you are an admin from this website, otherwise you wouldn’t know what my IP is, proxy or not.

    El Mariachi is alive and well and still ratting, I won’t say what his new site is, it involves the FBI and OBNON.

    Let’s straighten out some facts. ALL the information I post come from El Mariachi’s former site - Thegrifters.net and Darkoperations.net. I presume, since he is deeply involved in another sting about to go down on carders.su, he had to pull those sites offline since he revealed a lot if “insider” info. Did he do so inadvertently or did he let his ego/rage run away, like he has so many times in the past? He did, after all, get FIRED from his FBI gig due to his big mouth. You accuse me of having “insider” or “admin only” information. What rubbish - I only posted what is, or was, publicly available from El’s own sites. That’s most likely why the feds or El pulled his sites. I see even Google has now stopped caching Darkoperations - something only a highly connected CI or the feds could pull off.

    Thomas made it his agenda to falsely accuse everyone who originally exposed him as a rat. That means all those former admins of SC, especially. El accused Phantom and Mr.X of being rats with no basis because he had to justify his own snitching. So anything to bring down any member of SC was going to be accused. You even accuse JediMasterC of being a snitch. Really? He was arrested and taken to court, with a press release made by the DOJ. That’s not something they do to a undercover snitch. It really undermines their investigation when their snitch is being given that sort of publicity. Who did JMC snitch on? Where is the proof? You are only doing El’s bidding and trying to distract everyone from a real snitch like El by falsely accusing someone like JMC.

    The same can be said about OTF. He was arrested for a relatively minor offense by local police (Ohio police blotter has it). But the case was overridden by a superseding federal indictment from Operation Firewall when the feds stepped in. I’ll assume the feds held off on taking the case until October of 04 since they were trying to keep a lid on their undercover operation with Shadowcrew. I have all records of SC and CP postings, and several of the SC leaders came very close to blowing the lid off of the operation. Not only did they correctly guess El was working for the feds, they seemed very close to revealing that Cumbajohhny and SC were also part of a federal investigation. These same leaders were beefing with CJ and Deck at the time, CJ even banned them for a while. But you seem to have no knowledge of that or have conveniently forgotten.

    You accuse OTF based on what happened to Fargo, but Fargo’s case is public record since the Dallas papers had been running articles on him - and you can look those up yourself as I have done. Fargo was the focus of an intense investigation launched by the NHTCU looking into Carderplanet. A poster by the name of UKunderground posted online he hated Fargo and helped police. Was UKunderground undercover? When Cumbajohnny informant Albert Gonzalez took over the operation of Carderplanet that gave the Secret Service and FBI direct access to Fargo and every other US/UK member of that site, and Cumbajohhny sold everyone a VPN service, cell phones, and AT&T calling cards all tainted with Secret Service wiretaps. You even try to pretend DDT was “caught” hiding his Ohio connection - but here is a post made by DDT on TG that he actaully tells you he is from there, even connects to a newspaper article from his hometown (which I gathered was Columbus Ohio, not Cleveland). But really, it’s all irrelevant for one simple reason. DDT posted online throughout 2007, while OTF was securely in federal prison. Care to explain how that happened? DDT posted he was also detained by the FBI and ordered not to be online, I will assume that had to do with the topics on TG that were exposing the current undercover operations by the feds. I notice that in those topics, El Mariachi himself NEVER made the accusations, he would only allow the others to do the “exposing” while he egged everyone on. More “intel gathering” for the FBI would be my guess. When DDT exposed Gollumfun and the future sting site “Anglerphish” he was soon removed from the site.

    But ultimately the rat who turned in Fargo was never arrested or convicted of any charges - he in fact spoke to a newspaper and KVUE.com, his comments can be read there. I would assume that Mr.Fargo is capable of recognizing his former associate by the comments he made. I’ll quote them here:

    “His former associate says that Mr. Havard left the country in mid-July 2002 on an American Airlines flight to Belize. From there, he says, Mr. Havard frequented Canada and China before settling in England, where he spent the last six months amassing millions of dollars through a series of frauds.

    The former associate’s account was broadly confirmed by knowledgeable law enforcement sources, but some of the specific details could not be independently corroborated.

    According to his account, Mr. Havard’s two years on the lam was filled with scams involving credit cards, currency exchange agencies, $100,000 in fraudulent travelers checks, and the sale of fake passports obtained through contacts in foreign governments.

    Most lucrative, the former associate says, is the scam orchestrated out of St. Petersburg, Russia, by hackers who passed on bank account and personal information to the middlemen, including Mr. Havard.

    Mr. Havard would then pass the information on to three primary associates working for him in the states, the associate said. Those associates would re-encode magnetic stripes with the current credit card data and run a series of ATM transactions.

    “We were walking into [grocery stores] and getting gift cards, and we were just re-encoding them,” he said. “We’d walk up to the ATM machines with a whole stack of the cards in a backpack.”

    Each day, the runners would take $1,000 at a time from each account and send a portion of the cash back to Mr. Havard and the Russians through Western Union at the end of each day, the former associate said.

    The Russians “were sitting there watching the accounts drain and recording everything so they knew how much money to expect at the end of the day,” he said. “It was millions and millions of dollars.”

    He had also recently paid cash for a new high-end Mercedes with 19-inch wheels, television screens in the headrests, and a top-of-the-line stereo system, the former associate said.”

    The accounts of this former associate was given by a Mr. Flood, a Dallas prosecutor - so strictly from an online investigative standpoint, Mr. Fargo’s former associate is a resident of Dallas.

    About our friend John Dillinger, or Steven L. Roberts, who was never convicted on the rampant carding and pin cashing he was doing on Tg until he screwed up and caught another charge for drugs, that, my friend, is a snitch. He can join the ranks of Cumbajohnny and Gollumfun, snitches who screwed up and got caught committing new crimes while still working with police from their previous crimes. They more than anyone need to be in jail. Why? Because they were brazen enough to try to continue breaking the law while dealing directly with the police. Most ordinary crooks would have been scared to death to try that, but not the likes of a CJ, JD, or Gollumfun.

    I see you are masking your writing by using sloppy texting, but I think you are a professional investigator, or a security goon, trying to keep the real snitches names out of the news.

    Sorry but I’m not buying it. I have no real grudge against El Mariachi, but I’m really sick of his hipocrisy, and the hipocrisy of the likes of John Dillinger. You try to come across as someone who wants to expose “real snitches” but all we get is El Mariachi’s old fantasies and drivel. Where is the expose on Decepgal (snitch), Crisis (snitch), all the vendors from TG (all snitches), Nigal (drugforums snitch), of course there are dozens, maybe hundreds more - but we only ever hear about the few SC admins El has a vendetta against. In my opinion, if you hated snitches so much, why don’t you post more on Cumbajohnny and his love/hate relationship with El Mariachi? Both are confirmed snitches, and both are publically known. Fair game!

    One last little note: MacGyver is not dead. Where did you get that information from? Please post a link to an obituary. Otherwise I’ll take BOP.GOV’s word on his still being alive.

31. By Robert on May 2, 2009

    Ps: The comment made by “David Renshaw Thomas” about bringing Dillinger back into the fold was made by Thomas on TG, and I made sure to post a good clean copy of that topic which you can read from my link above. No “admin only” access to read that post, El made it public to all - so don’t accuse me of being some sort of insider or fed for having it. Everything I post was public, and I can prove it.

    Let me take another minute to further aid our law enforcement which I’m sure is visiting this site. Not only did Mariachi knowingly help Dillinger (after Dillinger was snitched out by El) to cash out ATMs from the pins Mariachi was receiving from the Russians, Mariachi also helped JD avoid getting caught in the sting sites as Mariachi knew just which sites were the stings (especially his own). Both, while working for the feds, were cashing out on the sly, and they kept their secret communications off the sting sites by using this innocent gamers forum as a meeting place. It is:

    ww.fools-gold.org - look up “El Mariachi” and “John Dillinger” there.

    My top-secret-from the Admin panel information actually was posted by El Mariachi himself. Any other concerns you want addressed?

32. By NP on May 9, 2009

    You are nuts man!I all it alike i i see it.Yes there was rats every were and EL was one of the biggest no doubt.I only ask questions when i see some thing i think is wrong.AS to the Fargo shit man i know i was waoking with him so dont tell me who ratted us out and who was what.I was there and on a daliy basis and arrested like all the rest and was locked up so dont question me pal.I talk about what i was involved in and also what i know is true.I have all the shit that shows who ratted who out and its all being posted so dont try and say OTF was not arrested prior to firewall when he was.OTF and Fargo also worked togather your talking about a cashier in Texas whom is not the person that caused fargos bust.UK was no rat than either he is now locked up with Fargo and doing a 8 strech.
    Maybe DDT was not OTF whom ever he was,he had shit from SC that only a Admin had.
    I never saw the posts that DDt said he was told to stop posting,maybe el removed it.IF El is working for thr FBI i would be amazed last i heard he was broke in Texas on his ass.Why would they take him on when his last gig was in Romania set up by a security company that he was fired from.I know people that know him well and not a one has heard shit from him since DM went down.These are all people in the real world that no him and have all not seen him.Unless the Feds now pay nothing why was EL begginf for pennys from anyone that would pay up till last year.He was broke and living with his Kids and had nothing.He had burned everyone he knew.So unless the Feds are lost.AS to Jedimaster.Man you are so out of the Loop.All this shit is public knowledge.He got a 5 year bid that was cut to probation after he worked with all Fed agencys and local LE in the northeast region.Again all that info including the shit from the courts are available if you want.You seem ti think this info is not out there.All federal case’s unless sealed are available and OTF like Jedi got 51 ks for co-operation.Email me and ill send it all on its way to you.

    I can send you the documents stating exactly what OTF did it is also in every ohio newpaper out there.He was arrested in may 2004 cashing pin from citi and he got three years for that offence.Contact me at the email address and ill send all of it to you.I guessed about a proxy as you posted about using one.I am no admin on a any site,period.
    Below is the link to Mac whom died in Custody he was re arrested after about a year died in there.Maybe you are looking at the release date of him also listed as Kim Marvin Taylor as if you used another name when arrested than you are listed twice.Bud he is dead.

    http://bop.gov/iloc2/InmateFinderServlet?Transaction=NameSearch&needingMoreList=false&FirstName=kim&Middle=&LastName=taylor&Race=W&Sex=M&Age=&x=67&y=8

33. By NP on May 9, 2009

    Are you reffering to EL being obnon on Carders,and thats the FBI OP?

    LOL man stop reading the shit on Wired from people that no nothing,as thats all that is.

    I doubt highly that any agency would hire EL on any basis.

    Let me clear some things up.

    OTF arrested for ciit pins you say it is a new indictment.Fact!HIs firewall indictment is sent to Ohio and the new case comes out in late 05.That is were he case that gets him 3 years or so.He is also told to pay back 320k.He was caught by ice/fbi/local le in may 04 with 200k cash and 120k sent via WU to the Russians.The firewall charge was at a low level charge.Google his name and get your facts right.Fact is he was popped in 04 and went back to SC and told no one.
    Fact he was working with Fargo as i was also working with the same people.So dont tell me what i know is fact.You only know what DDT posted at that time and maybe he was not OTF.DD had some adgenda and made as many accusations like EL that were bullshit.I only thought they were one and the same as i was there and DD had some intel that only OTF or me or Fargo had.Explain that?
    Everyone knew Gollum was a rat that was obvious and also explains that he only helped bust some small player,as he was so shitty as a rat.The reality is EL had a goal that goal was his ego and employment for him.What ever he could post that made him look good was hos goal.No one thought he was kosher and thats way he never got a real job.In many ways we agree on far more than we diss-agree about.
    I have no love for EL none what so ever.Fact is EL is MIA since way last year and no one i mean no one had heard shit.Probabaly he burned everyone left on the planet.That sense you are right right him.
    I was the first that called EL out after SC went down at grea risk i might add.DDT was in ELS camp and still was last time i saw.DDT stopped posting in the month that OTF went to jail and that was long before 07 i migght add.He did post on his gooogle thing after a few years that was on 07.From when OTF was in DD never posted.Than again EL could have being DDT.AT some point i bought ELs shit and let off him.Than wired hit and i knew i was right all along.So dont say i did not act i did un like most others.
    Stop with all this if arrested the Feds dont use you.Bullshit as they do all the time.They arrest and flip day in and day out.Some get court that day some dont.Some never get court most do,i could show you 1000’s pf case’s with all the details that proove that.
    When SC was up i was to busy to see that all this shit was going on it was pnly after tha fact,i made some attemts to see what really went down.So yes i am sure some knew what was up.I saw posts from back in the day that show CJ was busted no one did shit.The Fact is nearly every SC person did a deal most did not go and do a CJ but most covered there ass.

34. By Robert on May 9, 2009

    You have your facts all wrong. KIM MARVIN TAYLOR is alive and well, and was released in 2004. It’s right there in your link. BOP registration number 27255-112. Released 10-27-2004. You’ve been pushing that “Mac is dead” agenda which has me thinking you might be him, trying to “disappear”.

    Want to know my agenda? I work for a DNS service. I first encountered “shadowcrew” when it was being spammed all orver the web by none other than David Renshaw Thomas, whom I consider to be a low-life theif and criminal who literally got away with a serious crime and identity theft all under the watch of the FBI and even condoned by Special Agent Steven Butler, his handler. Butler even had to admit that they had to investiget David R. Thomas for theft WHILE he was still working for them undercover as a little rat snitch.

    I’m so sick of the witch-hunt cover up designed to mislead everyone away from the true snitches and their ONGOING sting operations. You don’t need to ask me what these new carding slash sting sites are, they look identical to all the old ones, complete with criminals advertising their scams and wares.

    I read Thomas’s report on OTF, and you know what I see? A sick delusional man attempting to transfer his guilt over becoming a rat onto SC admins who were clearly not rats. I’ve been posting to this board (and a couple others) for the past few years. I am in no way DDT, another slanderous attack from the El Mariachi camp to disguise there true LE motives. OTF was arrested by a local police department in connection with a fake ID used at Western Union. It’s in his record so its no secret. But I see no feds were involved. The feds didn’t get involved until October 2004 when they arrested all the SC admins, including again OTF. The feds then releseaed a press release on their arrests, which included all the SC admins - Deck, OTF, BlackOPs, and all the rest. That tells me right there NONE of those admins were working undercover or as snitches. That is not something the feds do - arrest and then issue press releases on their own undercover operatives. You know who you DON’T see on that press release? Cumbajohnny (Albert Gonzalez). Know why? He was their informant. Know who else didn’t get a press release? El Mariachi (David Renshaw Thomas). Another REAL informant. You even make a BIG factual error in US law, and I will have to assume you beleived the lies Dave told to you so let me correct you now - 51K is a STANDARD point deduction for a defendent when they accept a plea agreement. It’s worth all of two points. It does not indicate in any way shape or form that the defendent was snitching. Here is what a real snitch gets - NO INDICTMENT! That’s right, a real snitch won’t even get indicted, that’s how they keep their identity secret from the other criminals. Every criminal who takes a plea saves the government the need to go to trial, which saves them money. That’s why they give out those 2 point deductions, as a carrot to accept the plea. Why don’t you look at Deck and the other’s - they all got 51K’s, except for some of the non-US defendents.

    You even claim that you know exactly what OTF did, since it was in every Ohio newspaper out there - which is my point exaclty!!! It was full public disclosure and press releases made by the DOJ - PROOF otf was not a snitch!!! Real snitches don’t get indicted! Real snitches don’t end up on front pages of newspapers UNLESS they pull a huge Cumbajohnny / John Dillinger style crime while still working undercover!!! And even on those cases, WE KNOW they pulled another crime since that too is included in the prss release!

    I agree with you that DDt was in EL’s camp, I sure that he was EL myself (and still do). DDT did post after OTF was in prison, so that rules out OTF being DDT. DDT posted a lot on Confidential Access if you know where to look for it. I’m positive DDt was ran off by the feds, from TG - or Thomas had him run off, after DDT exposed Gollumfun and another sting site. You see who didn’t post the sting site? El. Know why? El is still snitching. It was Thomas who told us just what happened to DDT’s fedwatch site, and he told us here on this site. Here is his comment:

    “FEDwatch looks to be somewhat removed from service, as Google has stopped archiving it. There are tricks to get around it and read what was on there, but the site itself was closed down by google, probably at LE’s request.”

    Right from the mouth of Mariachi, LE “probably” requested Google close down Fedwatch. Why? Fedwatch exposed a real LE sting site and a couple of real snitches.

    So please ENOUGH already with the distraction psych-ops and false snitch accusations from 5 years ago - we know who were the real rats and they are still hanging around right here getting ready to pull the next big sting operation.

    As soon as something of signifigance happens in the carding scene, like this next big sting operation, expect El to crawl out from under his rock and bask in the glory his ego commands. He’ll go right back to claiming he knew all along who the “snitches” were but we know better now, he lies to protect the real snitches and falsely blames others as snitches to cover his tracks.

    PS - I thight the Dallas newspaper article made it perfectly clear who the snitch was in Fargo’s case, the newspaper was doing an interview with him! Can’t get much more explicit than that! Ask Fargo (Douglas Havard) to read that article and I bet you he will know who snitched him out instantly!

    PPS - You would actaully admit to being a part of Fargo/OTF’s citi pins operation? Here in public in front of how many LE agents, on a board dedicated to stopping exactly that sort of crime? Not too bright are you? And let me ask you this - for someone so intamately close to Fargo and cashing for him, why you seemed to escape the LE net - you might even be a closer accomplice of Fargo in setting him up? Let me share this with you - I have every post publically made at all of EL’s various boards, and all the public carding forums, and El’s archives of the hidden Admin forum called Deznuts and another hidden forum called Intraforum. I got them because Dave Thomas made them public at his sites. I ran searches on comments you made through those archives. I have to wonder if you are an older carder named PrimeSuspect. I’m asking because PrimeSuspect was not only working directly with Fargo but they even shared living qurters (or maybe shared visits to each other’s homes?) Now who is looking an awful lot like a rat?

    I’ve said all I care to say, it was fun watching Thomas and Dillinger (Steven L. Roberts) burn their bridges, I don’t believ for one minute your lies about El being “broke” and begging for money, that’s just Daves con game, classic thief that he is. Did you send him money? I bet you did. He is undoubtedly still laughing at you for that.

35. By Robert on May 9, 2009

    You said:
    “The Fact is nearly every SC person did a deal most did not go and do a CJ but most covered there ass.”

    No, the ones who did deals are the ones you never heard of or read about in the newspapers. None of the indicted Admins from Shadowcrew, the ones that were arrested in October 2004, who had nationwide press releases made about them, were the ones “doing deals”. Only the real snitches, who have been hiding out on sites like this one or in the remaining carding boards, are the real snitches. CJ we all knew about being a real snitch in the aftermath since he was, as David Renshaw Thomas, liked to put it, the last man standing. We knew of other “last men standing”, and those include John Dillinger, El Mariachi himself, and of course Lord Cyric. All of those “last men standing” never used proxies and the feds always knew their real IP’s and their real identities. All were engaged in carding and identity theft, yet the feds never busted them (openly).

    Care now to guess who the real snitches were?
    Everyone called Iceman a snitch, but we know he wasn’t. Just another victim set up by the feds, with a lot of snitch help from Davey.

    I could tell you a few more, from LaMusica, from Carder.su, from Bl4ckc4rd.ws (just to get started) but these forums will run their course and press releases will be made, and a very sick man named David Thomas will once again crawl from under his rock.

    Why do you even protect him? You claim to be a real carder that was betrayed by Mariachi - You know he did you wrong, and sold all your information to the feds (including NHTCU), and lied to you about what he was really doing, he gave you misleading info so you would help him spread his lies. Why help him now? Expose him, as I have been doing. Why protect a dirty rat, a two-timing criminal who stole money while working with the feds? Spill!

36. By Robert on May 9, 2009

    Here is the scoop on MacGyver, Kim Marvin Taylor. He is alive, there are two “Kim Taylors” listed at BOP.gov. One is MacGyver and the other is just a similar name to Macs. BOP.gov explains that you are given one federal register number and it follows you for life. Taylor’s is 27255-112.

    BOP.gov also explains that the age listed on the inmate locater is the current age based on date of birth. You see the second Taylor is one year older than the Taylor we know as MacGyver. That means 2 different dates of birth, which means two different Taylors.

    Go to ww.bop.gov/inmate_locator/faqs_locator.jsp to read the FAQs.

    Kim Marvin Taylor did not die.

    Do you know for a fact JediMasterC worked for the feds then or is that more innuendo? His record shows he served time. Daniel Defelippi’s records show he was set up by his accomplice. What records do you have that show he was snitching?

37. By Robert on May 9, 2009

    I see a pattern in the El Mariachi dis-info agents here that want to tag anyone who pleads guilty and received the standard “cooperation” plea agreement (5K1.1) point reduction (usually around 3 points) as an “informant” or turned snitch is another way of shielding the real snitches. A defendant can receive point deductions under US federal sentencing guidelines a number of ways - one is to plead guilty, another is “acceptance and timely” plea. In other words, if you know you’re guilty and you have no hope of winning a trial, plead guilty and do it quick. You can knock off from 5 to 8 points off your sentencing numbers, which will reduce you a level or two.

    I looked at the case files, and in OTF case (which again, El Snitchyachi posted at thegrifters.net) and saw ONLY a two point deduction and NO POINTS deducted for timely plea or acceptance.

    Now if you wan’t some real snitches from Shadowcrew, let’s talk about the likes of Decepgal, Kevlar, Nigel, Cumbajohnny, Phoenix (from British Columbia) also known as Melmoman, currently on Carder.su, Ethics, Gemini, Patryn (also known as Voleur), and finally El Mariachi, who was already working for the feds long before his arrest in Washington State. That’s the “infamous” arrest he shared with his partner Kim Marvin Taylor, where Mariachi proclaimed he was already “familiar” to the Secret Service.

    All those names above weren’t chosen randomly, they are the ones still actively working on the current sting boards.

    It’s like a disease, the same snitches and rats and the same feds agencies keep pumping out these so-called carding forums, promoting crime and robbing the citizenry of their identities and bank accounts all so a snitch can stay out of jail.

    It’s great though isn’t it when the snitch like John Dillinger or Cumbajohnny messes up and has to go to jail AND get front page headlines written about them laying out their crimes and snitching. Let’s hope some kind inmate shows them what happens to snitches on the inside.

38. By Robert on May 10, 2009

    Here is an update on John Dillinger (Steven L. Roberts):

    He is housed in the Metropolitan Detention Center (MDC) Brooklyn, New York, it’s an ADMINISTRATIVE FACILITY that houses male and female inmates.

    In other words - it’s a snitch “protective custody” hang-out. Here is the official description of the facility:

    “The Metropolitan Detention Center in Brooklyn, New York is in essence a big county jail. Run by the Bureau of Prisons for the feds, this nine floor, two-sided jail holds about 3,000 prisoners in various stages of the criminal justice system process. The buildings house pretrial inmates, the newly arrested or indicted, those on federal writs, those just sentenced and awaiting designation to a federal prison, prisoners who are in transit transferring from one prison to another, work-cadre prisoners who are close to being released, INS detainees awaiting deportation, and inmates who are working for the US Attorney’s office and can’t be placed safely anywhere else.”

    JD has been in there for a LONG time so we can eliminate “in transit” inmate. He’s not newly indicted or awaiting sentencing. He’s not a “work-cadre” or “close to being released” inmate either. He’s not an INS detainee. What’s left??? Big shocker:

    “inmates who are working for the US Attorney’s office and can’t be placed safely anywhere else.”

    John Dillinger, Steven Lance Roberts, was a HUGE rat snitch working for El Mariachi, David Renshaw Thomas. JD gets busted (June 2006, coincidentally about the same time DDT goes offline), then after JD goes bye-bye El Mariachi pulls his disappearing act. Only we know Davey didn’t go anywhere except back under the covers to try and entice 17 year old losers into carding ops to feed his masters at the FBI.

    I said it before and I’ll say it again, David R. Thomas is a sick man.

39. By LOL on May 10, 2009

    You idiot the BOP stating that MAC is released is when 2004 the day after SC went down.The second Kim Taylor is Mac and it used to show his old release date after the time served in 06.He was re-arrested in late 06 i think and got a year for probation violation.He than died.He has two dates on the BOP cause he used two verions of his name,its that simple.Why would i make that up?If you dont think im right call them and find out he is dead.

40. By LOL on May 10, 2009

    Man you are nuts period.

    Yes there are many ways to get a reduction as a rule a 51k is gievn when one gives more than assistance.That can mean they tel there story or can mean they do a EL.The standard reductions are just that a few points.IF 51ks were not inportant than why do they allow a judge to reduce a sentence from 10 years to 0 years.You are now making out that standard reductions like admiting guilt will get you home free.Fact is everyone but two got years of there sentence’s in the SC bust.
    For some one that is saying EL is nuts you are agreeing with all he is saying.He is the one that said that Voleur is a Rat.By the way does Voleur not fall out of your set up of a rat as he did his time and is now out?

    I am not EL no fucking way.JD was in a hospital and did get sent up to MAnhattan.What deal is he gettng than he has 8 years or so.That is some deal for a rat mind you.JD was in a Hospital at some point and i heard that he was getting a deal yes i heard that to.MDC in NYC is a holding center for remand prisoners and so forth.Who does JD have shit on,cmon?He was a low level casher thats a fact also.He cashed for people that he never knew.While you say he was at it for years.Many cashers never get caught as there are so many.IS he doing a deal he could be.Sure i just dont buy your take on it.You know what i could be wrong.

    For some one that is intent on stating that some of us are scum and rats.You than say that all Admins on SC were ok?What is that about all but BOPS the muppet, were criminals.Blackops was just a moron with a big ego and you sure remind me of him.
    EL went MIA long after JD went into prison.

    EL went MIA last october after DM went down and that is fact.IF any one used him as a Rat i would laugh as he cannot best i can see,do anything other than further his own goals.

    I allready said i agreed with some of what you said.I allready expalined my posts.Unlike you.Only the poeple like OTF and those guys kept all there posts.Why dont you do this email me at the email above and we can chat.

    I am done here this is old news and it was done years back.You are years to late and if you really wanted to do some thing.Than posting in 05 would have helped.I am done with this post and as such wont respond again.AS it all old and far more intresting shit is going on.On a last note in the Bullshit Blackops sent to the courts,he said he was ADD>that sure sounds like you.What went down all the years prior to this,eh?

    Lastly again.BOP lists all used versions of names.Think about it.Mac was released in 06 i think.Why would it show his release date as the day after SC went down.It did so cause after his arrest he was transfered to a State prison.The reality is BOP shows ones last release date.His was not 04 as he was in custody since 04 released in 06.Than re-arrested in late 06/07 i cannot recall exactly when.Than he mess’s up his probation and is sent back for a year.As you should know if you mess up on probation you get time.He did that and got a year and died in custody a old man.He had no one after he left prison after SC and was in upstate new york.He had no friends as such and could not make a living.I know all this as fact as i knew these guys and you are presuming i had no contact with them since SC went done.That is a in-correct miss-conception on your part.Funny DDT and EL and LC all had the same hates and beefs.I always found that funny.That three different people would all have the exact same hates.Never made sense.I always thought that they were all one and the same.In fact i did think that EL and DDT were the same.You also say that DDT posted in 07,he did one post on his google thing and that was years after his previous posts.Why are you defending him.IF EL and DDT were now different people,than one could conclude if you are not BOPS than you could be DDT with a slightly different take years later.IT was DDT that gave EL some validity.Funny you are also what DDT did and that is still going on about the old rats like Voleur and do on.The only things you and EL dont agree on are who is a rat,right?Than and the fact that EL lied to everyone that asked him was he a Rat on TG.IF i was DDT i would be pissed as he bought into a lie like everyone that ever listened to El.Fact again is this.
    IF DDT is a not EL.Than DDT was a ADmin on SC as he had stuff that came from the places that only admins had access.He was also a old old timer that also had Back ups of boards that were old old shit.
    You also have the same type of shit and are going down were DDT used to.
    Yes EL made alot of shit up and yes alot of it was bullshit.No one knows for sure who did what as the people involved dont tell there story.I was the first to question EL after SC and i did that at my own risk as i was also arrested.I wanted to find out the truth as best i could.I battered EL and those guys.At some point as EL can do he wears you down and i left the old TG in my mind and let it go,as i thought some of what EL said was kosher.The fool i was as after EL did wired.All my worst fears came true.A few years later i talked with EL again in depth.He did what he always does and that is that of a low level con.AS i said many times prior to DM going down i relised again what ELS game was and i stopped talking with him.Best i know and this comes from people we know in common.Is he is MIA and we all highly doubt he has any validity and any use any were.Unless his rants that DM was a sting set some one on fire what use had he.He had nothing when we last talked and was in my opinion nuts.Now the Feds so work with all kinds.Unless ELS gig was always do cause bullshit,than what use does he have?
    He has burned everyone and than some so who would hire him?Im done with this.We agree that EL is a sick man in every shape and form,no doubt there.
    Again i offer you the my email and we can chat,this is old news really,i also agree about the Feds using the same shit to cause more crimes.Than again all the LE in the USA do this and no one cares really.I think you and i cared cause you like me were caught up in this and were pissed of and did not like the way history was being written.

41. By LOL on May 10, 2009

    ON jeid master i have his whole case files and it clearly shows the letter from the DA asking for a 6 year reducton in his sentence.Gollum even complained about his SS handlers having him beef with Jedi in his letter to the court in his case.He was a rat for four years and had countless people arrested.That is fact.

    The two KIm Marvins are one and the same except Mac gave the wrong DOB>he is dead and instead of busting my nuts do some research and you will find the truth.Again i say this,why would macs release show a date a da after his arrest in SC.The release day is 0ct 27 04.We all know he never got bail so how did he get out?IF it was macs final release date it would show his last release in 06/07.It does not.The reason is simple he used two versions of his name and two DOBS.

    Here is a example.exCFO was released in janaury 2008 with three years probation.Being the idiot he is he messed that up and is back in jail doing another 7 months.His old relased date is now deleted and his new one shows either “not knowing” or the new date is up.Every time some one is relased from the custody of the Feds its shows that date.It is obvious Mac was not released in 04 right?Anyway i read the whole case and his new bust and he got another year in prison after being out about 10 months.

    Again with MDC in New York most ICE holds are now in local private prisons and not in BOP custody.I dont think you get how BOP works.You think you do,you dont.Again call the BOP and they will confirm that Mac is dead and i have no reason to say this other than its true.I feel bad as what happned to him in there?Did he kill himself?Was he killed?No matter what its no way to die.

42. By LOL on May 10, 2009

    You are also wrong that a BOP number follows you for life.That only stands IF the person when arrested gave the Correct infrmation the first time arrested.The person i linked is the same person allbeit with a different DOB and slightly different name spelling.There is no way to explain How Mac would have being released in Oct 04 a day after his arrest,when as i said a zillion times he was never bailed after SC went down.His release date was some time in 07 and as said prior if that was his release date it would state that on BOP>.Seen as the like i posted is the also Mac and he died in Prison it shows him as deceased.
    Here is ypur quote below.
    “I read Thomas’s report on OTF, and you know what I see? A sick delusional man attempting to transfer his guilt over becoming a rat onto SC admins who were clearly not rats. I’ve been posting to this board (and a couple others) for the past few years. I am in no way DDT, another slanderous attack from the El Mariachi camp to disguise there true LE motives. OTF was arrested by a local police department in connection with a fake ID used at Western Union. It’s in his record so its no secret. But I see no feds were involved. The feds didn’t get involved until October 2004 when they arrested all the SC admins, including again OTF. The feds then releseaed a press release on their arrests, which included all the SC admins - Deck, OTF, BlackOPs, and all the rest. That tells me right there NONE of those admins were working undercover or as snitches.”

    Man read the shit about OTF in newspapers everywere and look at the arrest date and the crime.

    He was arrested in Cashing Citi Pins and got 3 years or so.He also has to pay back 320k.That is not the punishment off some one that was caught with a ID.Again you are wrong he was caught by the FBI ICE and also Local LE.It is you that is making out i am making shit up,i am stating the Facts as i read them.
    Do a google on OTF and you will see he got time for the Citi pins and the 180k they stopped from being WUD to Russia.They also took 180k in cash from him.Yes they did not indict him on that till after a year after SC.My point is this.NO one No one knew that he was arrested in May 04.He went back to his Admin gig on SC.Than fargo was busted a month later.You tell me why did OTF tell no one about that major bust.Sure the Feds did not tell anyone as it would have raised eyebrows.As a rule when the Feds allow a charge to hang back a year or so there is a reason.OTF was not indicted or charged till a good 18 months after the fact.He was on no pre trial and most people thought SC in Firewall was his first charge.
    The reason it was Thought that OTF was DDT is that like you.You both had a volume of information like email accounts that were used by Guys on SC.IT can be assumed than that you and Him were about than.I also thought that maybe DDTS goal was to put out miss information.Sides from Gollum he only posted assertions with no proof.It was DDT not EL that accussed MRX and Phantom of being Rats.Those that were there also know Phatnom showed up posting from a holding center in a State prison that held Fed prisoners.How was that.Again the records were public and it was obvious that if they were not rats they did there best to become one.
    Yes some is assumptions and as one cannot know everything that went down.Again with the SC guys and you idea that they are not or were not Rats.Nearly everyone co-operated with the Feds in some way or another.Yes many did not show back up as a Rat like Gollum.ON one hand you say No Sc Admins were bad as you can read the files.Than you say Voleur who did Two plus years is now a CI and always was one.Given some one two years does not make them wanna help the Feds.He did go to DC to talk with the DOJ.Than again many people did that to.In the end he did time and sure i do agree he could now be suspect.He is in Canada so who is is Boss?

    Only about three did no deal at all.You are talkng apples and oranges on this.The only reason i ask who you are is this.Very few Joes on the Street are intrested in this.And you have Stuff from back as far as Ziplip and no one that was not there would have that.You just do not wanna admit who you are.Take DDT you act like him.Talking about how people write and do forth.That was a mantra of his.

    Time of in Fed crimes is only possable if one Helps the Feds.Sure there are 51ks for just telling your story and you are low level fruit.To suggest that you get a 51k and get two points of is bullshit.Take Robo from florida.He got 11 years as he had about 30k dumps or so and the loss amount is at 500 dollars per dumps dead or alive.His sentence was 10 years reduced to 2.4 years after the 51k allowed the judge reduce his time.With out that he would still be in jail.The standard reduction of a few points is stupid.Say you have 20 points and your time is 2 years,a 2 point reduction is use-less.Most also plead guilty as the Sentence is harsher if one go’s to trial.SO dont say 51k are not inportant.They are the standard to get major time off they are the only way.Anyone that covers this knows that.You say OTF only got a two point reduction.He probably did a deal with the DA were by they charged him with a loss amount of 360k which equaled 3 years.Without that agreement he could have being hit with a loss of i dunno say 700k.I am guessing the math to make a point.
    The time he would have done would have gone up.All of the 51ks mean the DA is asking the judge to do certain Things.Those are the facts not any EL post.I know cause i have had familly busted and know this inside out.

    You know what EL was not the only one to wanna write his history.No doubt as i said he is wrong on much.I am not him and if you read what i am saying i agree with some of what you say.Look at this blog and there is a poster that was screwed by EL,and yet after his time in jail.He still talked with EL and like me bought into Els bull.That is EL he is a powerfull liar and is able to manipulate anyone if given a chance.That poster confirms what i say.That is EL is MIA since last october,why is anyones guess.I concur again and again that he is a dangerous person and needs some serious help in many ways.He is so deluded its scary.His take and lies are never ending and he will use anyone he can to help meet his goals.By last October from what i saw was a Man who No One liked or wanted near them.He had no traction anywere with anyone on any forum.SO i fail to see how he has redeemed himself to get employment again.IF TG was still a set up after SC went down.What was its goal.Though as posted previous the Feds will allow one Rat out another all to keep there Rat on Top.

    There is people from than like you that also have a axe to grind.It could well be DDT was OTF or BOPS and they felt bad about there part and like EL wanted to redeem themselves in there own mind.You wont say who you are and my again i extend my offer to talk.Its obvious we share some opinions and its also obvious even though you protest.That you care about what is said about some people.

    I also offered any proof and were to get it if you need it to validate all i say.

43. By LOL on May 10, 2009

    One last i never said EL ratted me out he never did.He did that on others.
    I am in no way protecting him or helping him.
    If i dont agree with you on what you say i say it as i see it.SO lets get that straight i agree with you on some points on others i dont.

44. By LOL on May 10, 2009

    I never cashed for Fargo and never said that.Many people knew him.
    Fargo was a casher that midlle manned pins back to anyone and took a percentage.
    Prime was ripped by Fargo.
    Fargo never lived with Prime he stayed with him for a day or two.
    OTF was also a casher for the same Russian.
    DDT posted on CA prior to OTF being in prison and no one on CA cared much about him or his posts.
    Yes at one point i thought EL had some decency that is long gone.He never ratted me out as he never knew me than.Yes i bought into some bullshit.
    When Wired hit I knew i was right and said so.Were i diss-agree is here.EL has had no traction any were since back after than.So IF you are saying he was still Ratting during TG after he outted it as a Sting and all that period since late 04,i know he did one gig for a private company.I found that out on 08.Since than and before my belief is he was on the outs with all and any LE agency.Than again you could be right.I dont see how they would take him back.
    What are you saying?Is it that TG after SC went down was still a Fed run op and its job was what to Out Gollum?Thats were im lost as i dont see what the goal was.
    I do agree that no one can trust EL or anything he says.EL is exactly what you say is not a CI as he is now so tainted.What was his job to attack every board for the Feds?My take was he had a huge ego and wanted to make money in any way posaable.Here is a guy that paid a debt by having some cash Fed money and thinks the debt is paid.That is how warped he is.So on all that we concur its about some of the details we dont see eye to eye.

    You are also so wrong about pleas in the Federal arena so dont keep posting what is wrong.I can correct you again and again.What i will do is explain and help you see how that system works as i know i am right.In no way is it anything to do with EL and anything he says.I have close mates all arrested in that arena and know exactly how it went down.

45. By Robert on May 10, 2009

    You are CLUELESS as to how the Fed system works.

    1.

    When the Feds take you in to custody, the US Marshalls scan your fingerprints. It won’t matter what fake name you give them, they will know EXACTLY who you are. Even more so when you’ve already been a federal inmate, like Kim Taylor. All the identity information they go by is from your fingerprints. MacGyver is Kim Marvin Taylor. The Feds assign ONE federal registration number, and it sticks with you for the rest of your life.

    Now I suggest you go back to BOP.gov and look at inmate Kim Marvin Taylor, Registration number 27255-112. He is listed as RELEASED, October 27, 2004. If he had died, the status would change under this listing to deceased. The BOP is not some credit reporting agency with inmates listed under aliases, fake names, and different birth dates. The Feds KNOW who you are. You get one listing, and one registration number.

    You want to prove Taylor is dead - then show us his official obituary.

    Check this out - change the inmate locator race to “unknown” and you get 3 Kim Taylors (one of them is black). The other 2 are white, and only one of those other 2 are MacGyver - the one that was released in 2004 and is alive and well.

    I wonder why you are pushing the “Mac is dead” agenda - are you trying to help Mac “disappear”?

    2.

    John Dillinger - Steven Lance Roberts - is hiding out in a protective custody status at an “administrative” facility in MDC Brooklyn. Roberts, however, is not from Brooklyn or even from the east coast. He’s from the west coast. Long way to fly an inmate. The BOP puts you in the closest available facility, no way they take someone across the country for no reason. Hospitals are on the west coast too, so don’t sling that BS hash about him being “sick”.

    MDC Brooklyn is described right here: gorillaconvict.com/blog/blog.php?id=55
    Read that description - it’s for inmates that are “working for the US Attorney’s office and can’t be placed safely anywhere else”. First paragraph down. JD is still working for the US Attorney. And he can’t be placed anywhere else for his own safety.

    He got 8 years - but that’s only because he violated his own snitch deal he had going with the feds. Like Cumbajohnny and like Gollumfun. I bet you he doesn’t do anywhere near that amount of time, because after he continues working his deal out of MDC Brooklyn for the US Attorney they’ll cut his time.

    Now that makes you want to wonder who on those carding boards, like Carder.su, are in reality Steven Roberts. I will bet none of those scammers have any idea the carder they are working for is an inmate from a federal facility.

    3.

    OTF was arrested in May 2004 and indicted October 2004. That’s 5 months later. Where did you get this “one year later” lie from? El Mariachi? We know he was pushing a “get SC admins” agenda for them outing him as an FBI rat. You say “they did not indict him for a year after SC.” Wrong again - he was indicted on day one of SC. He was part of the Operation Firewall indictment. Get your facts straight. He was arrested by a local police department, and given a local court date. The feds picked the case up from the local police when they came back with a SUPERSEDING indictment in October 2004. Superseding means it takes precedence over the earlier indictment.

    You make a big deal out of him coming back to SC after an arrest by a local PD. But I say that’s what so many of these career types do - especially carders - they all go right back to the carding boards and keep carding. I bet more than half the carders on any of these forums have had run-ins with LE and came right back to the boards. LE only knows they caught a suspect engaged in a local crime. They don’t know they have a kingpin or major federal suspect, unless a federal agency steps in and takes over their case. That’s what happened with OTF, the feds came in and took his case over from a local PD, and then indicted him along with every other “legit” admin from SC. El Mariachi want’s to turn this into “proof” OTF must be working for the feds - but I challenge that, based on the numerous instances that prove OTF was not only NOT working for the feds but was one of their targets. The indictment alone proves he was not “undercover”.

    A true undercover snitch is the likes of El Mariachi and Lord Cyric - no indictment, no punishment. Only when these snitches commit new crimes do you see them indicted - Cumbajohnny, Gollumfun, and John Dillinger. You even uncovered a convicted snitch from a long time ago (excfo), but you noticed in the press release on excfo, the police tell you he was working under cover and committed additional new crimes. Further proof that snitches that betray the feds get outed. Do you want to claim that the only reason OTF was indicted and convicted was because he betrayed the feds? Where is the press release then? You don’t have it because it doesn’t exist.

    4.

    Point reductions - you better go read up on federal sentencing guidelines - it all comes down to points. 2 points is a huge difference, 5 points even more so. Look at “128 easy mitigating factors” or “128 easy departures”. It shows how many different ways defense lawyers can get downward departure at sentencing. Staying under 30 points is crucial, anything above 30 points can result in much more time. Below 30 is around 24 - 60 months. Below 18, where most of the SC cases fell, you get around 24 months. And as expected, that’s just where the SC cases came in at.

    You have no way to judge one defendant based on the points they were charged with, because you have no idea what evidence was presented or what other factors were at work at the time the case was made. I think a lot of us were VERY surprised the SC cases didn’t result in more time, and the interview with the woman who headed the DOJ case against SC showed they weren’t fully prepared to prosecute that case. The Feds didn’t even have the laws on the books that they do now - a similar case brought now WOULD result in many more years, instead of the 24 months the majority of the SC cases received.

    5.

    Well you sure know a lot about the inner workings of Fargo and his Russian. You even knew Fargo only “stayed” with PrimeSuspect (roomates?) - PrimeSuspect is one of the “dots” connecting all the little pieces in the UK. PrimeSuspect is also one of the many MANY “ignored” snitch suspects, which is why we have to deconstruct all of El Mariachi’s lies to reveal the real story beneath. Snitch suspects like PrimeSuspect have been out there working their LE magic and no one pays them any attention because of all the attention focused on years-old cases like the convicted SC admins. You “hate” on these same convicted admins because that is what Dave tells you to do. I bet you have no clue who the real snitches are and just how many of them are operating in the clear on all the current carding boards thanks to the dis-info from Dave Thomas.

    You accuse me (and others before me) of being privy to the special SC admin information, but how many times do you have to see Dave’s TG and “darkoperations” board and all the archives he had posted there. He put the shadowcrew archive online, along with all his own board archives. I’m sure that is why LE made him take his site down - it revealed all the secrets. He made a slip of the tongue too, and revealed LE forced Google to remove DDT and Fedwatch.

    Speaking of which, Gollumfun was not outed by El Mariachi. He was outed by DDT on Fedwatch. It was after revealing Gollumfun that DDT (but not El) were removed from the site. Notice that as soon as “Anglephish” is mentioned, DDT had to lay low. He did pop up time to time to post, but nothing like it was during thegrifters. I still suspect DDT was nothing more than a concoction by Thomas, as a way to reveal the inner workings of ongoing stings that would have gotten Thomas in trouble. By inventing DDT he could expose the stings run by other agencies, while keeping his own stings a secret known only to himself. Remember during SC he tried to derail the Secret Service sting - and the feds had to warn him off of Cumbajohnny (El mentions that in his ridiculous book). Yet, after the feds warn him off of CJ, El is still allowed to go after the rest of the SC admins calling them snitches - only no feds try to stop him there. Why? Because the feds could care less if he was outing fictitious snitches, they only care about protecting the REAL snitches. Let El do LE’s bidding and scare everyone away from the real criminals, and back into the waiting arms of the snitches and agents.

    El used the same tactic with Iceman at CardersMarket. CM was a real carding board, ran by a real carder. Yet EL screamed day and night Iceman was a snitch and CM was a sting. It scared all the real carders away from CM and back to the actual sting site, DarkMarket ran by El’s old friend Lord Cyric and an FBI agent posing as Master Splynter. That same tactic was used against SC at first, by scaring the real carders from SC to his waiting sting operation at Thegrifters. It wasn’t until after the feds took over SC that El and CJ made peace. Yet El was still free to vent his vendetta against the remaining SC admins WHO HE KNEW WEREN’T SNITCHES. The FBI or Secret Service could CARE LESS about protecting the reputation of carders they know aren’t working for themselves - it even HELPS their cause - by scaring the real carders away from them and back to the waiting sting sites and LE/snitches.

    One only has to review all the rantings and ravings made by El Mariachi against Iceman to see it was the same pattern used at SC.

    6.

    Protecting snitches - or exposing criminals working behind LE’s back?
    Why post all this information about El Mariachi? Because he is exactly like Cumbajohhny and Gollumfun. He worked with LE and he worked against them behind their backs. He committed a series of carding crimes while warning off his buddies from the real sting sites (like his own), same as Cumbajohnny. Every time El crawls out from his rock he promotes his massive disinformation agenda to distract from his newest sting or his newest crime. He and John Dillinger (Steven Lance Roberts) were cashing out pins behind his agent handler’s back (Steven Butler). With JD sitting in protective custody in New York, it’s no wonder at all “El Mariachi” had to disappear. His world of lies if going to come crashing down.

    And I hope he gets a LOT of time sitting in a cell next to CJ, JD and Gollumfun.

    PS: What site are you referring to as CA? Carders Army?

46. By Lastcomment@.com on May 10, 2009

    I have expalined this over and over.How many times does one say the same thing.You seem th to think That El wrote all of what was on TG.You contradict yourself all over the place.Your lie you worked for a DNS service is bullshit and you know it.You are one David Appleyard and you and i know it.Dont recall the Judge taking your dodgy wepons off you before you got bail.LOL

    Dude we know the marshalls do fingerprints.If the Talyor i say is Mac and is also yout Taylor than how can do explain the release date of Mac in 27 oct 2004 the day after he is arrested during SC.He was not released till 07.How do you figure that out.The reason he im right is the they are one and the same.God how hard is this to get?Call the BOP and confirm what i said.He is dead get over it.
    You are wrong and i have no reason to push it other than its right.Duh!

    OTF was arrested for Firewall in 04 like everyone else.His supersecing indictment which you metion and get backwards,was a in 05 you moron.Read the press release and the case files.That is the case he did time for.It was not a ID case it was a case involving Citi card and heres the newspaper telling you exactly what i am saying.

    http://www.linuxelectrons.com/news/general/ohio-man-sentenced-prison-encoding-atm

    Ohio – Gregory A. White, United States Attorney for the Northern District of Ohio, has said that U.S. District Judge Donald C. Nugent sentenced Kenneth J. Flury, age 41, of Cleveland, Ohio, to 32 months in prison, to be followed by 3 years of supervised release, as a result of Flury’s recent convictions for Bank Fraud and Conspiracy. Flury was also ordered to pay restitution to CitiBank in the amount of $300,748.64, and a $200 special assessment to the Crime Victim’s Fund.

    On October 18, 2005, a federal grand jury in Cleveland, Ohio, returned an indictment charging Flury with one count of bank fraud, arising from a Flury’s scheme to defraud CitiBank which occurred between April 15, 2004, and May 4, 2004, and involved Flury obtaining stolen CitiBank debit card account numbers, PINs and personal identifier information of the true account holders which Flury fraudulently encoded onto blank ATM cards. After encoding blank cards with the stolen account information, Flury used the counterfeit ATM to obtain cash advances to withdraw cash and obtain cash advances totaling over $384,000 from ATM machines located in the Greater Cleveland area over a 3 week period. After Flury fraudulently obtained the funds, he transferred approximately $167,000 of the fraud proceeds via Western Union money transfers to the individuals supplying the stolen CitiBank account information located in Europe and Asia. Law enforcement officers seized approximately $157,080 in cash from Flurry on May 5, 2004, and also intercepted an additional $32,345 Flury had attempted to transfer via Western Union to Russia on or about May 4, 2004.

    Kenneth Flury was also one of 19 defendants indicted by a federal grand jury in New Jersey in October 2004, as a result of the “Shadowcrew” investigation, an long term on-line undercover investigation conducted by the U.S. Secret Service targeting domestic and international subjects engaged in identity theft, credit card fraud and production of false identification documents. Flury consented to the transfer of his New Jersey case to the Northern District of Ohio in 2005, and pleaded guilty to one count of Conspiracy in connection with his activities as a moderator and administrator on the Shadowcrew website.

    This case was prosecuted by Assistant U.S. Attorney Robert W. Kern (Cleveland), Assistant U.S. Attorney Kevin O’Dowd (Newark) and DOJ Senior Trial Attorney Kimberly Kiefer Peretti (D.C.), following an investigation by the Cleveland Office of the Bureau of Immigration and Customs Enforcement, the Cleveland and Newark Offices of the United States Secret Service, and the North Royalton Police Department.

    Related:

    “”Shadowcrew” Internet Identity and Credit Card Thieves Plead Guilty”

    SEE the date the indictment came out 2005 a year after Firewall?

    See its cashing PINS?

    DUH>now were is that yelping anything EL said.Were am i defending anyone up to and EL all i did was point out much you post is wrong,and alike EL you dont like it.The BOP has plenty of people listed twice.You are funny.

    Lastly there is not one person on this planet that is backing EL that i know off.That also includes me.IF you dont think Mac is dead than call the BOP,think you can handle that instead of attacking the facts i post.El called everyone at Fed there was no maybes,so to say he did it as a Target is so wide of the mark its a joke.See you are so far out of the scene its a joke.You have info from back in SC days,since than you have nothing new.Just hashing over all the bullshit EL said.Thats so over man as no one cares.El is done and has being for years.He was wrong about so much its a joke.You are going back over some issues you have no idea what you are talking about.Like Prime and who is a rat.Some people did not get arrested for various reasons.You also no fuck all about Confidential Access as if you did than you would know who is on it and who owns it.You know none of that and are as use less as EL in posting old information that everyoe Knows and no one cares about.Your number one beef is EL attacking the SC admins.Well they were all self serving idiots anyway and all deserved what they got.IF ypu knew anything you would know this.CJ did warn people lots of them.He just did not warn those guys.Know why?He was allowed pick the targets.Ha Ha as i know you were one of them.Blackops the greatest fake on this planet.The muppet who lived with his Mom and Kids who had ADD and was a failed idiot.What about him calling LE ON banking 101?That is a Rat no matter what way you look at it.Yes EL made shit up and yes he is a scumbag.You are just as bad and are really just going over semantics at this point.The reason is you wanna right the percived wrong EL did on you.Were as you never metion the Fact all the Admins bar You were also Thieves,you slide over that Fact.I said this before.The FEds use UCS Rats day in and day out.In the DEA its hourly.What is so different.There are a 1000 sites talking about Rats and all you say is EL is to balme for everything.Cmon there was many players out there.Again EL is a shit head no doubt.

    I am done and im sure even after i post the what is true you keep on at me.Who cares is all i say much more intrestin shit going in that you have no clue about.

    You are late to the party.

47. By Lastcomment@.com on May 10, 2009

    A true undercover snitch is the likes of El Mariachi and Lord Cyric - no indictment, no punishment. Only when these snitches commit new crimes do you see them indicted - Cumbajohnny, Gollumfun, and John Dillinger. You even uncovered a convicted snitch from a long time ago (excfo), but you noticed in the press release on excfo, the police tell you he was working under cover and committed additional new crimes. Further proof that snitches that betray the feds get outed. Do you want to claim that the only reason OTF was indicted and convicted was because he betrayed the feds? Where is the press release then? You don’t have it because it doesn’t.

    What are u on about?

    I never said OTF was indicted cause he fucked the Feds.What is said was he was busted in may 2004 and did not get indicted till late 2005 and i posted the release that says exactly that.
    There was No press release on exCFO we found out cuse his name came up on some ones indictment when they were arrested in Firewall.He was named as a Source of intel in there arresting data.His case never revealed anything like he was a Rat.The fact he was arrested twice in a year,and not charged for another year is what gave the game away.All that only came out after his Firewall and the person i metion pulled his case.

    No one doubts that some Rats are busted ala EL and no one knows.Also everyone Knew EL was busted in Seattle and Banking 101 posted the link back on SC.IT was when Mac came bcak and told the Members his car was stolen,and wanted to not tell anyone and the THE ADMINS agreed were the shit started.Again more iffo were the Admins were covering up shit.I dont need anyone to tell me anything about any of this.We were all there do you understand that?

48. By Robert on May 10, 2009

    Late to the party eh? Yet this topic was started just last year with followup commentary by the blathering idiot Dave Thomas and JD’s whiny brother at the end of this past year. So my comments are rebuttals of theirs - to set the record straight and not let them cover up their own deceptions. Then you come in here and try to turn it back into a witch hunt against imaginary snitches who we all know perfectly well from the DOJ very public indictment were never snitches. Covering up for the real snitches appears to be your agenda. Otherwise you would use all that insider dope you have on Mariachi to finally expose him, instead of passing off his propaganda as you have been.

    And please, spare me the ranting about OTF. He was arrested May 2004, bailed 3 days later with court date set for August. Then INDICTED by superseding indictment by the feds in October 2004, which last time I checked, is only TWO months from being 2005. OTF sentenc was carried out before the six defendants in New Jersey, and went to prison before they did. In all his court proceedings took less than a year. Were you expecting him to be in prison a month after getting arrested???

    Here is the final proof that OTF did not rat on Fargo - and it comes from the Wired article which quotes “British Authorities”:

    ww.wired.com/news/technology/0,72581-0.html

    “British officials said that Havard and a 25-year-old Scot named Lee Elwood stole about $11.4 million over 18 months. They were caught only after an accomplice
    was arrested in Austin, Texas, trying to board a plane carrying $30,000
    in $20 bills [15].”

    Wow - exactly what I said. An accomplice in Texas ratted on Fargo AND sat for an interview with a local Texas newspaper - which is what I linked to in the above posts. That accomplice was caught smuggling money (stolen from ATMs) to Fargo (Havard), who then turned snitch on Fargo and his group.

    You don’t seem to know that or want to admit that - cause ALL your lies and dis-info come from the master manipulator El Mariachi. El lied to you and your group of snitches, reporters, agents, and infosec goons at thegrifters. Did you buy his book too? Did you donate money to help pathetic Davey?

    Show me one independent source that isn’t from Mariachi’s camp. You even link back to El Mariachi’s relative, Robert Thomas. My, what a small world El Mariachi travels in.

    You must be connected to the biggest rat and crook in history to continue foisting his lies on the world. El Mariachi even brought his own son Michael Thomas into the act. What part of the scam against the feds did Michael Thomas play? What kind of sick man would even expose his own son to this sordid mess?

    You even lie about excfo not having a press release or being in the newspaper, claiming that you only know about him being a rat cause it pops up in someone’s court case. Google “excfo” and “Herman” and the link that pops up is to none other than El Mariachi’s site Darkoperation’s “Metalshop” archives (which, of course, is done since he and the feds pulled the site).

    But the newspaper account that was archived at TG/Metalshop explicitly states he was working undercover and got caught yet again with additional stolen identities and a gun. The dead link is here (from Google):

    ww.google.com/url?sa=U&start=2&q=http://www.darkoperations.net/metalshop/forum/showthread.php%3Ft%3D15&ei=uMwHSvj_GuOLtgfk4cH5Bg&usg=AFQjCNF4QMrFpzEeAQ3v8nYlhq9CYXnnYA

    Oh, and show me where the BOP lists people twice. One link of a federal inmate listed twice is all I ask for. FYI: All aliases get lumped under the real identity of an inmate. Try and scam the BOP or Marshall’s service into using an alias in the fed system.

    I posted my link to BOP.gov, any competent readers can view the BOP info and decide if the REAL Kim Marvin Taylor is alive or dead. HAD he died, they would have listed him as dead under all the names/aliases/phony DOB’s he had used. Not just the phony one.

49. By Jebus on May 11, 2009

    The post about exCFO that you refer to is exactly that a post.There is also a link to his indictment.There is no press release.If there was you find it and im happy to buy it.
    Second again Firewall happened in 0ct 2004.Otf is arrested than.
    A year later in nov 2005 yes A Year later as posted above in the doj release he has the supersecing indictment.It states clearly that the orginal arrest was in may 04 months before Firewall.I have never seen any were his bail conditions for that arrest.Why did they take a year after SC to indict him for the Citi pins.Again you are getting the math wrong.Arrested in may 04.Indictment in last 05 a year after Firewall.You said time and time that some one who is a rat is some one arrested and no one Knows.Well OTF fits that does he not?Arrested in may 2004 pops back to SC till october 04.Tha arrested in october 04.Than a year later indicted on the Citi Case.In his court case it says that he gave assistance to the Feds.Again i can send you much more than was on TG.

    That is the point i made nothing else.You also say it was a ID charge it was not it was a major charge related to the Citi pins.
    Fargo and the Wired interview and all the other shit you quote and eaxactly that quotes from some Feds and so on.I am posting what happened though you do not seem to like it,sorry.You keep yakking on about the guy in Texas.OTF was working on the same Pins as Fargo and was arrested a month prior to Fargo.Did he warn anyone.No he did not.How did he explain to people that the 200k that was meant for Russia was not sent.If he had a warned people that maybe some people would have stopped and took stock.
    Mac if they are now one and the same,than expalin again how his release date is him being transferred from BOP to state prison and a release date of oct 27 2004.Anyone that knowws shit knows that the BOP shows your last re;ease date regardless of how many times you are in.If you dont wnanna believe me no problem,just call the BOP and stop yelping at me like you are.
    You also say DDT outted Gollum again wrong.Gollum showed up on cardersarmy and everyone went after him.It was not just DDT,everyone was on that prior to DDT.So again you are wrong.Yes DDT did join in.Fedwatch is available as i have being on it.That is also the last time DDT posted in some time in 07.No were on CA does DDT post after OTF went to prison.I heard that DDT said he was a new mod called the “coolMR” or some thing like that.Like you i thought el was also DDT.DDT had some information that EL did not have.He was some one that knew SC inside out and put much time into posting his thoughts for what ever reason!

    Why i posted.You have said you are a innocent and all you post came from Darkoperations and so on.Much did as it was public.You posted on Wired about a email provider and best i know that information was known only by those about than.I could be wrong i suspect i am not.
    I am not trying to re-write anything anyone said.I am telling you what i know from being there and involed in all of this.Do you understand that?My friends were set up by exCFO it was us that posted his indictmemts i did not as i was in prison.That is how i know.There was never ever a public press release on exCFO.Why are fighting over semantics?All you are fighting about is time lines and press verus posts?
    In one instance you say EL was all bogus.Yet you agree that Voleur and Decpegal and so on were all Rats.That is the exact same stuff EL wrote.ON Cardersmarket you are also wrong.many people thought Iceman was a rat.His biggest bogey was saying he knew noone from SC when he did.Ice hacked all the boards and clearly saw the link tween NCFTA and the FBI and posted it.IT was just some thought that MS was ok and bought his shit.There was always board wars.To say the EL drove traffic to DM is stupid.AS EL was on and on about all boards as stings.ON DM he had no account and was banned and no one at that point cared if he lived or died.Best i see is some one begging for a living.He came out with some bullshit and cons that only a low life con would.Why he would do that if he was living a life of any validity is beyond me.But you seem to think that he was living high on the hog.No one i know thinks or saw that.So maybe you have some thing we do not know.

    I only wrote here cause i saw the link i had no idea about this place.I had seen you bits on comments on wired and was gonna post but thought better of it.Than i saw this and felt that you were doing exactly what EL did and that is making hay outta nothing.That was why i wrote no other reason.
    The reality is you are wrong about the Federal system and again we should know as we did time and were arrested in it?You on the other hand keep talking about Guidelines and so on.Here is a example.Take Scarface on SC.
    He was caught with i think 20k of dumps.The feds do this.They multiply each card by 500 dollars deal or alive.His loss amount was say 10 million for arguments sake.His sentence was i think about think about 20 years on that amount.With his 51k he got two years plus.That is what a 51k gets you.Again if you do not buy what i am saying than ask any lawyer about the system.It works like this you get points for the crime,the loss amount even if there is none vis a vis the cards being multiplyed.Points for being a criminal and so on.Everyone in SC except Blackops had some thing on them as the Feds had watched them for quite a while.It was also the first big case with the SS and in some ways i think they were over whelmed and that explains all the sentences ,along with everyone but three people co-operating.Two points of for admitting guilt and so on is useless,when you are facing 20 years or so.That is why a 51k gets you along with the plea agreement you figure out with your lawyer is how your sentence is get down.Just cause you see a two point reduction for OTFS co-opertaion is not the whole story.The real story is him doing a deal that gets him the three years instead of 10 years.You should know this either again you are Blackops and know well what is the process.Or you are just a guy trying to figure out some of what went on.

    I have no love for EL and i am not defending him in any way.I just dont agree with some of what you say.All you do is say im a EL junkie.Nothing is further than that.How many times do i have to say all i say i either from people who were there,and have first hand information.You say EL is still out there,he is i agree.You also say TG after it was closed and darkoperations was still a part of the Sting best i can gather.I dont see that.See i saw EL as ego driven centric nut.That wanted a career at any cost along with money.There is no doubt that he wanted any gig any were that helped rat people out.I dont know that the Feds had any hand in his acts over the years.I could be wrong.
    After DM went down he went MIA and no one i Know had heard anything at all.No one knows what he is up to.For most of his life his Mother has funded him and probably still is.I hate bringng him up as i consider him a pariah and a leech on society and have no time for him.I know no one that does either.If i have any information on a rats out there wi would post it gladly.This is my last post.Why dont you email me so we can chat there.I can get you anything that will help you that i can.By doing this post we are just keeping ELS name alive and that is some thing i do not wanna do.ON EL i am right behind you he is a no good scumbag that is useless.

50. By Jebus on May 11, 2009

    You are seeing shit when there is none.

    I did a search on OTF and found that one i had no idea it was linked to EL.You are really being parnoid here.

51. By Jebus on May 11, 2009

    IF IM WRONG ABOUT MAC WERE IS HIS RELEASE DATE>HOW MANY TIMES DO U NEED TO READ SOMTHING TO GET THE FACTS RITE!!!

    CALL BOP AND THAN COME BACK 2 ME.

    WERE ARE WE ARGUING ABOUT EX WE AGREE HE WAS RAT AS WE POSTED IT.ALL YOU ARE SAYING IS WE LIED ABOUT A PRESS RELEASE.THERE WAS NONE ONLY A POST BY MY MATE THAT TALKS ABOUT HIS INDICTMENT.IF YOU DO NOT THINK IM RIGHT,THAN DO THIS GOOGLE MARK HERMAN.
    YOU WILL FIND NOTHING IN FLORIDA OR ANY WERE ELSE.DO A SEARCH IN BOP AND YOU FIND HIM LIKE MAC TWICE.ONCE AS MARK ANDREW HERMAN AND ONCE AS MARK HERAMN.BOTH THE SAME GUY.YOU SO STUPID IM DONE WITH YOU.I HAVE OFFERED ANY PROOF I CAN VIA EMAIL.YOU CAN END THIS BY CALLING THE BOP AND ASK THEM AND THAN SEE.
    I HAVE THE COURT CASE THAT SHOWS HIM BREECHING PROBATION AND GETTING SENT BACK TO JAIL.HE DIED THERE.
    EXPLAIN HIS RELEASE DATE THAN IF IM WRONG.
    YOU THINK YOU KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT IM SORRY TO SAY YOU ARE WRONG.

52. By Jebus on May 11, 2009

    You keep quoting the newspapers that in turn quote LE and we all know they inflate evrything.So that does not support anything in my opinion.

    My last example.The Feds say in the Gonzalez case the loss amount is 400 million.That is from not cards used but the amount it cost TJMAZZ to pay the fines ect.The reality is far different.The loss amount of the fraud is maybe 20–60 million and that is the high end.
    TJMAXX breeched there contact with Visa and MC.How they used Wep as a key to there network and did not encrypt the traffic.So in that hack there was no great thing.They hacked the Router of the LAN at the local store.From there they mapped the network for future use.They did not have to do anything as any sniffer like wireshark picked all the dumps and pins in cleartext.Who is at fault here you might ask.I say TJMAXX is a bad as Gonzalez.They left anyone that used a POS at there store in for a fraud.No shit Albert should never have being ether had they followed any type of compliance,none of this would have happened.You know nothing you nothing about Alberts arrest in 03,do you?Nope nothing and i could tell you but why bother.
    Dont there post about fargo and raptor any more ok?You were not there we were,we were and did the time and got the T Shirt,we are all now up standing citzens and have learned are lesson.That way we post.Cause do you think we are dumb posting here,we have done are time and have no dear of talking about crimes we did the time 4.Unlike you who hide behind some bullshit about being some one that works for DNS.You are a former SC person and instead of saying so.Afraid of the Probation office.Or you are the dumbest idiot i have come across.Either way you are making yourself look like a idiot with out my help,quoting papers that have the story arse backwards anyway.All you do is argue that OTF was a good guy.Man he got caught cashing out 300k plus of citi d and p.How nice was he?He was a long time low end criminal that became a cashier like the rest.You keep on that You Know these guys were kosher.They were all part of the same clique.They not one had the nuts to do the time like men.

    Dead Link is right How can you say that Link show or prooves anything?
    You google Darkoperations/metalshop or some thing?
    I am presuming that you are talking about a post about Mark Merman there was never any press release on him and if you can find it please post it.I have never seen him in any press release.
    Another thing in many case’s in SC and out there were many people that in there indictments or criminal complaints that had varying information.A few had exCFO listed as a person that gave the Feds intel on them.
    You pnly saw the public generic general indictment.Everyone than had there onw indictment that had shit that dealt with there activitys.Seen as you never saw them how are you qualified to say what is in than and what is not?You are not plain and simple.I am cause i read them.
    Mark herman/exXFO was arrested in november 2003 because of a DUI.He was allready on probation for a previous case and cause he had Debits and IDS the SS came in.
    They came to his house and found a gun and and a whle slew of shit.They than put him out as a rat.He came back and told everyone he was on a sate charge.Than he is cashing for EL in Els sting and is re-arrested with another gun and more ID theft on march 17 2004.He is than indicted in may 2004 and is jailed.There you have one Rat EL having another Rat exCFO both ratting and one working with the SS and the other with the FBI.Why did the FBI allow EL target exCFO when EX was allready a Rat makes no sense.
    That is what went down.No one Knew the time line on EXS First SS bust till SC went down and he was named in the indictments.Than my mates got his records and posted all of the shit on him,that is what you are talking about.So how are we distorting anything.Seen as we also Knew Herman and some of are mates were those targets.How can you suggest we are making anything up when it was us that outted him in the first place.
    You biggst beef is the SC admins and You Know they were all kosher,as they were pubiclly arrested and therfore are not rats.It all depends on your definition of one does it not?
    When you co-operate you talk with the DA and gent on your case.You get the chance to “be a king for a day”.That means you tell them everything you did and also anyone you were involved with.If you can help them make case’s even better.That is enough to get you from 2 years to 0 years.Or is Robo’s case 10 years to 2 years.Right there is some one who co-operated and got Mjor time off.You seem to ignore all that and rant on that i am some how distorting facts and towing some line for EL.
    AS to darkoperations being taken down via the feds,lol.He had no cash to pay the fucking bill.Just like TGS reincarnation were by DDT paid the way and again i have the proof.El did what he did and that was berate some one like JD and moan how JD make bank cashing he was was Broke.LOL>
    Man i hacked that board i told you i have the PMS with EL begging people for money.
    AS to JD maybe he was busted prior to TG getting pulled.Everything i saw did not suggest that.What i did hear was that after his sentence was given out there was some deal on the table.There is one last way to have time reduced and it is after the fact and i am not sure off all the details.He was in a Hospital in California i think prior to his going to Manhattan.You say look here is JD on carders.JD was a low end cashier i am sorry to say that was berating the feds in a very public way.You could be right maybe he was also a CI that wen bad.Who did he target.I have the PMS were he is talking to LC and LC has some who wants a cashier.You say and i agree LC is suspect as Fuck.What was the deal LC sends JD a contact and again one Rat is busting another one.Or the fact that JD is cashing for Segvec/Cj.Was he cashing for the Feds or Segvec on his own?
    These are the variables you have in this shit.You have CIS doing work on other CIS stings and that makes no sense what so ever IMO.
    Care to explain that?

    What is your point that EL was self serving?

    We all know that and no one cares about him.You seem some what like him in that,yo cannot get over the fact many people know more than you,and we all have are own opinions.How you can call me him when we were the ones that called out EL and LC back on Cardersarmy in 2005.We were the First calling out DDT and what he was about.Like i said ast some point we thought that El had some good points.That was ended quickly after the Wired article confirmed all are worst fears.How come you dont quote all the posts on TG asking EL why wont he tell us the bug story,he was always alluding to?Why wont he tell us how come he was not arrested for the King Op?How come he can post about crimes and not be afraid?We asked and asked and all we got was wait.So we did and make a hige mistake in ever given him some validity.WE have held are hands up and said MISTAKE.What the fuck else do you want?Human is the ability to make mistakes and move on.
    Instead no matter what we say and how we present it,you insist in trying to taint us with EL.WE ARE NO WERE NEAR THAT RAT.So fuck off with that shit.Any way,were were you when we were bashing him and all the rats over the years.Its so easy to come out 5 years later and try and post some shit.Piss off!
    You and El both name Decepgal Crisis Ethics CJ Crisis Gollum as rats.EL came out as a Rat.
    What exactly are you fighting about the ins and outs as you say,of if Prime was a CI.El never knew that as he did not know any of those people.You are doing just as he did and getting bogged down in minuate that is pointless.No one and i mean no one no one.NO one has ELS back.Why back years ago after Wired and EL did his two minuted of Fame,everyone and than some split from Him.No one posted in his defence just like now.You are confusing EL posting as various people as his having some support.He burned everyone by accusing everyone of being a Fed.That and annoying the fuck outta anyone that ever thought he was worth anything.
    He is not!He is i agree a sick fuck and needs some serious help,i agree he did more harm than anyone can guess.All so he could feed his ego and try and get a check.

53. By Robert on May 11, 2009

    I’m going to back off all the name calling and hate speech. Reason being, the more I read your posts the LESS you look like El mariachi in disguise - and that is a good thing. So let’s just iron out the facts from the lies. Enough with the “you’re a liar” beefing.

    I am less certain about MaqcGyver, although I personally would not put it past him to fake his death (online at least) to avoid all the scorn he would receive from his Shadowcrew activities. That said I go by the BOP and only the BOP to ascertain if he is alive or dead. BOP has him listed as alive under the official version of his name. I notified the BOP contact to rectify the classification. Let’s see how they change his status.

    About OTF I do NOT promote the idea that he was somehow one of the “good guys”. Only that he was not in any way one of the snitches involved at SC. I base that on Kim Zetters article for Wired magazine, I base that on the Dallas newspaper that did the interview with the actual accomplice to Fargo. Those two ALONE are a smoking gun that Fargo was snitched out by his Texas accomplice, that his accomplice was caught at an airport transporting 30,000 in cash to Fargo, and that the cash was from ATM’s and pin-cashing. These do not seem to be details fabricated by LE. And I will bet you that Fargo, given those articles/newspaper reports, would INSTANTLY recognize his accomplice.

    Next - if OTF was a undercover informant, than WHY would they indict him, issue several press releases about him, put him in every newspaper in the country, even on TV for the local news, and THEN try to cover it up??? Secondly, OTF was indicted under two jurisdictions, Ohio and NJ. Operation Firewall was from NJ, then the Secret Service indicted him in Ohio for pin cashing. BOTH indictments were served on October 2004. You seem to only know of the Firewall one because that is the one El Mariachi chose to reveal to you. According to the motion filed by his lawyer, the NJ case was combined with the Ohio case. The background of the Ohio case indicates the following:

    Arrested on a Friday at a Western Union for use of a fraudulent ID while while transferring cash by a local PD.
    Bailed the following Monday. Received a court date to appear. Court date delayed by the local PD to conduct investigation - waiver signed waiving right to speedy trial.
    Court date set for August 2004. That date was delayed by court.

    Then October 2004 the feds filed two superseding indictments and the rest is public history. I have an original state issued indictment. Because you got sucked into El Mariachi’s lie factory at TG you most likely have his Operation Firewall indictment from October.

    He was originally indicted in Oct 2004, and after the two cases were combined another superseding indictment was issued 2005 According to BOP.gov he was jailed in April 2006. Once you get sentenced you have to wait for them to assign you to your prison - according to the US Marshall’s service, he was to turn himself in (self-surrender).

    That appeared to be the case for most of the SC defendants. Deck and OTF both received 32 months. Every one else got a little less. Deck and OTF were also the two that were involved in pin-cashing (Deck could be said to have played a vital role in creating the scam). Both their cases followed the same timeline, from initial indictment to court appearance, finally to sentencing and self-surrender. But you can’t compare cases directly, each one was unique with the exception that all involved one count of conspiracy for operating Shadowcrew. BO for instance, only had the one conspiracy charge and received only house arrest for 24 months.

    Now here is the crux of the matter (for me at least). Dave Thomas chose to make a comment above under his alias “Uncle Bob” that claimed all (or most) of the indicted members of SC were already working for the feds as snitches - a stupid and ridiculous notion - since undercover informants aren’t very useful being publicly prosecuted. YET he chose NOT to mention the members he KNEW for a fact WERE working as snitches and informants, even those who were running their own sting boards such as the following carders:

    Decepgal (Diane Dansereau Avery) - who ran “Muzzfuzz.com” and “cardercrew.com” at the same time Thomas ran Thegrifters.net. She was the chief admin and founder of that site. Muzzfuzz.com was even mentioned in the indictment against SC, but she herself was never indicted.

    John Dillinger (Steven Lance Roberts) - I posted my reasons for calling him a senior informant involved with Mariachi and TG. The fact he is in protective custody at MDC Brooklyn, 3,000 miles from his jurisdiction, speaks volumes about his CI status. Mariachi himself posts that Dillinger was nabbed in 2004 as part of his “King Op” for cashing ATM pin-cards. But Roberts never went to any court or was never indicted until 2006, and only then AFTER catching new drug charges.

    Lord Cyric - Thomas posted at length how not only did Cyric NEVER use a proxy (along with Dillinger), and that he and the feds knew all along who Cyric was, Cyric then goes on to co-admin DarkMarket along with an FBI agent (Master Splynter - Keith Mularski). Lord Cyric along with Mariachi used to beat the drums how all the SC admins were rats, but not he and Mariachi.

    Voleur / Patryn (Omar Dhanyani) - Voleur became the official SC egold exchanger, working directly for Cumbajohnny. Voleur was also known as Patryn on HYIP forums like Talkgold.com. I linked to one post from an HYIP board. HYIP boards are scams “High Yield Investment Programs” designed to use egold in ponzi schemes. Dhanyani never served time and is still very active on Talkgold.com, running more HYIP scams.

    Dark Rain - never indicted, another known snitch

    C0rrupted0ne - another FBI agent posing as a carder. No mention made by El Mariachi yet he is supposed to be exposing all the known snitches.

    Then look at all the “snitches” El Mariachi was willing to give up - outing informants while he himself was employed as an informant for the FBI. Is it legal for a working informant to expose another informant? Wouldn’t that result in a serious obstruction of justice charge? The time he tried to expose CJ he got cuffed by the FBI and ORDERED to lay off of CJ. Exactly what one should expect. Yet at the same time he was calling several of the SC admins informants and NO REPERCUSSIONS were handed down by the FBI - the reason: the FBI did not care if Mariachi called non-informants as such. It didn’t hurt their investigation. Only exposing REAL informants, like CJ, would hurt their investigation. Hence- it’s okay to out fictitious snitches, but don’t touch the real snitches.

    Mariachi was constantly calling Iceman a snitch on CM. The fact is that Iceman, like OTF, Deck, BO, and the other 28 members indicted in October 2004, were never feds or informants. They only got set up by a sting operation. Iceman was a real carder who got caught in a real sting, and he will serve real time - more so since they upped the sentencing guidelines for identity and credit card fraud.

    If you want to see the truth, you have to deconstruct all of El Mariachi’s lies. He pushed the “everyone’s a snitch except me and my cohorts” agenda only to keep the carders from seeing who the real snitches were. THEY are the ones you DON’T read about in the papers.

    The only times you DO read about a snitch in the papers are in the few cases where the snitches committed a new crime WHILE still working for the feds/police. Like these:

    Excfo (Mark Andrew Herman)- I’ll accept your statements on excfo (I try to be accurate but I don’t keep every little post or article) I could swear I had read about Excfo from a Florida newspaper online, but it might be from El’s lunatic rantings on TG that I remember. I googled “excfo” and “Herman” and got the link to Darkoperation’s archive version of Metalshop, an earlier Mariachi board he had publicized. Unfortunalte I can’t read it since the feds/Mariachi pulled the site, and Google removed it’s cache of it.

    Gollumfun (Brett Shannon Johnson)- I do not think Gollumfun was working for the feds until AFTER most of the SC indictment’s went down. His court records are, due to his CI status, obscure on events. He did however get exposed for attempting to run “anglerphish” as a sting operation by the tandem duo El Mariachi/DDT and had to scrub that operation. Then it was made public by a DOJ press release he was an informant who committed a series of identity thefts while undercover. It only capped what everyone knew for several months. Further, a busted carder publicized his indictment that listed Gollumfun as the informant.

    Cumbajohhny (Albert Gonzalez)- his story is well know. The fact he did not get indicted is proof how the “confidential informant” relationship works for the feds. You go undercover, you do not get indicted. Even if not one single criminal is caught, you, as an informant, remain free from indictment or charges. IF you committed a seriously bad crime, the feds might still indict you, but it would be a SECRET INDICTMENT, you do your time but no one ever knows it and the court records are sealed.

    I could naturally go on about the countless hundreds or suspected snitches patrolling the carding boards, but that is not what brings me to this site. I periodically view the carding boards that I know of, but my job does not involve investigating them, although I do work as an infosec goon. I do take particular delight in seeing David Renshaw Thomas, a man I consider to be a blight on information security, a pathological liar, who betrayed his FBI handlers. The FBI stated they had to conduct a theft investigation against Thomas while he was under their employ as an informant.

    From a character point, any man who would betray a friend, such as he had with Diane Avery, who bailed him out of jail after his initial arrest, even traveled from her home state of Florida to Texas to do so, by then setting her up for the FBI deserves little respect. After setting her up for the police, he even goes on to betray the police, which is what got him fired from his FBI gig (and the aforementioned investigation).

    I’m sure Miss Zetter of Wired magazine realized portions of Thomas stories were just that, and chose to rely on her own investigative instincts rather than outlandish and fabricated lies based on Mariachi’s vendetta against the carders who once trounced him from “the scene”, along with promoting his unreadable diatribe of a book. Since Miss Zetter chose not to pursue his agenda, he whined in public at wired magazine she was spineless. Rather, I allege Miss Zetter is a professional who recognized when a sick and depraved man was pulling her leg for his own personal greed and chose to ignore him - something we all would benefit from doing.

    Good day!

54. By mac on May 12, 2009

    Mac was arrested on oct 26 2004.

    He recieved a sentence off 30 months and three years probation.He was relased to a half way hoouse in Brooklyn New York.He was in and out of court asking for the return of a computer and money taken when he ws arrested.He told the court that he wanted to write a book and also use his skills to be a security advisor to prevent crime.None of that happened he ened up looking for work and living alone upstate new York.He went back to the familar and was on the run for five months.
    He was in custody since oct 26 2004 his release date was march 2007.

    A warrant was issued in july 2007 for his arrest for failing to see his probation officer and also was accused of new crimes.

    He was arrested in december 2007 and was held in custody till sentence in janaury 2008.
    He the recieved a sentence of 16 months and another three years probation.Man this endless probation when one violates is so wrong.

    He died i think in April 2008 in the custody of the BOP.

    Those are the facts gleamed from the court.

    Can you explain the other Kim Taylor whom i agree is also Mac.Can you tell me how his release date is 27 october 2004 the day after he is arrested in Firewall.It is inpossable as he was never bailed and his first release was the date i posted march 2007.

    They are one and the same though i made a mistake in my other post when i said Herman had two names,in the BOP that was a mistake.On Mac i am right and i deplore you to call them and ask them if he is dead.IF your were Right,than Mac would have a release date of 2009 not 2004.Because Mac had two numbers in BOP allbeit with slightly wrong DOBS and so on he shows twice.

    Call his Attorney Bruce Rosen IN New Jersey he is easy to find in the yellow pages.Here let me do that as well here is the number you loser!973 635 6363 and if that is to hard email the dude @ brosen@marc-law.com!How hard is this 4 u now?Im sure u will still have some bullshit that im EL and im the bogey man raining on your parade.LOL you ADD ADHD sifferin idiot.

    Ask him i cannot make this any simpler for you than that.I said call the BOP and the pussy you are,you would not.Mr Rosen will confirm that Taylor died in BOP custody at some point on 08.Instead of bashing on about what a liar i am,call him and i am sure he will be able to set this straight!

    What you gonna do than?You will have found out the BOP makes mistakes.LOL.
    You will know that Taylor is dead.The more intrestin bit is how Taylor died?Was it some one who he ratted on?AS He was not allowed go back to Fort Dix by request of certain partys.Was he snitchin there to?

    So off ya go do some home work ive done all the hard work for u all u gottsa do is fone or email,seen as the amount of tripe you type im sure u can manage this task.

    Smoke those pipes baby

55. By mac on May 12, 2009

    What you seem to miss and i fail to see why about OTF is this and i posted the press release.What you quote in that post i never saw.And i have every court piece of info from OTF.It was Ice/FBI and local LE.I have never seeing anything that says he was bailed in may 04.The first time that case becomes public is 2005 when he is indicted and that is why i keep going on about it.IF you have some thing from a State court ir the Federal system id love to see it.His court docket shows no metion of that case till 2005 no metion of bail ect.If he was bailed in may 2004 than it was a State case like you say.That would explain why we never saw the case prior.It was assumed that OTF had his first court date in oct 2004.I always did wonder about the citi case.
    He is indicted in Firewall in 0ct 2004.He makes no appearance in new jersey.He is than rule 20d out to Ohio which is transfer to another district.I have the court docket and all data pertaining to both case’s and i can proove my case in an instance.I posted the link.Did you not see the dates on it?He is first charged with Citi 15 months after Firewall.That is the crime he gets time for as Fireall is rolled into the time for the Citi case.Your time line is of i am afraid.
    It is a year later in nov 2005 that he is indicted in the CITI scam.YOU keep saying that he is indicted in both at the same time,when the press release clearly states that is not the case.After re posting above i could agree that maybe he was given a court date as you say in State court in may 2004.WE only see the Citi case when we look in the Federal system and it looked bad.His case did clearly state he was of great assistance.I never implyed he was rat of the day mind you.
    As to EL showing me anything.It was us that accessed all these records and my mates so he never showed us anything.Yes he posted his records on TG.WE never went by what he said.We did are own research and found out are own facts.
    Again with all the fighting you do.
    Without defending him.
    EL called Darkrain out.El called Master Splynter out.He called out Decepgal time and time again.He had so many posts about her and that she was a Rat.All those guys showed up on TG and than went to various boards.C1 was also called out by EL.You must never have bing on Carders.Some of those guys were also outted on that board.
    We also Knew Decepgal and talked to her much of the time.She swore she was not a Rat.In fact in interviews with the Feds her name was asked about constantly.
    El did find some info about her that may have her as a CI long before SC started and he linked me into all of those thoughts.In a nutshell.She and her hubby moved to some other State and his car was stolen prior to going.She talked about how she was in the investigation field and,how she had LE get the guys who stole there car.Also a handler in that area from the FBI was living in the same place.So i fail to see were EL did not warn anyone about all these guys.He called everyone including us Rats.One thing he did was call everyone one,and that was just stupid.So i dont see what your issue is except say with the SC guys.IN that i agree some what as they were not exactly CIS in that sense.
    ON CJ he did get indicted in july 2003.Again you are wrong he was arrested by the LE and the SS stepped in.His case is on the docket in New Jersey as it has being since 2003.It is not SEALED and it is still there and accorind to the FEds he is being charged in that case as well as the 4 other cases in various states.The only one i found that was not charged like you say was exCFO.It took multiple more crimes and 18 months before the Feds pulled the plug on him.
    You keep saying real rats dont get indicted.CJ did man,No one knew his name to out him.That was the issue.So no one could seach the federal database to find him.The minute he was outted we did the search and found him.He was charged with one count of access fraud.He was released in Pre Trial and stayed in New Jersey till after the case and than moved to Miami.He was than managed by the SS and the probation dept.
    As to Kim Zetter i know Kim and have talked in a generic manner with her.Unlike EL i am not in the business of being famous so i declined interviews.Kim only writes what she can find out.That comes from either LE or people willing to talk.Kim knew and still knows little about Fargo.How do i know?I told you we were there and we know as much as Fargo does.Thats how there we were.So when i argue these points its from the fact i know the shit.Those are them facts.
    You also say that EL was told to stop outting CJ and so on.All of that is ELs posting and you quoting it.You are taking alot of posts from TG and i think missing some thing.
    As to the posts about LC and proxys that was mostly us not EL.
    AS to messing another investigation by outting CIS i am un sure as to what really applys in the real world.You have no idea what the Feds really do.I know as i know most of the players and there friends to.SO i could tell you all about what the Feds get up to.And it is not pretty mind you.They will do anything and i mean anything to make a case.They break the law daily.They will allow one CI Out another CI all to better a job never mind solve a crime.These guys all get well paid jobs after there 20 years or so.The Feds have relationships outside of guidelines with there CIS all the time.After SC went south and all the task forces were in place.The SS and the FBI raced to the bottom in who they would arrest.Some one the case’s were a joke.Kids with two SS numbers.Local SS offices fought with other offices all to make each other look better.One would think they would have a common goal right?Nah…they all are out for themselve’s.That is why Gollum complained about the his handlers and them making him fight with Jedimaster.What about Pr0digy a ebay fraud guy who told EL that Gollum was using ELS real name in ebay frauds.The Feds knew all about that and did nothing.That is not a EL rant i did the due diligence and it is true.So the Feds will do anything up to letting one Rat get outted to better another one.I am again not defending EL i am telling you what we know and what we saw.No doubt again that EL did what ever it was to make his goals.You are right on in that EL would do anything to to anyone IMO to get what he wants.He has not one loyal bone in his body.I think you give him to much credit.He is just and always was a low level criminal that failed badly.Even after all his whining that he was sorry he did TG.What does he do?He gets a job in Romania with a private security agency.He than go’s to Romania and fails lik ethe dog he is.Instead og coming back and saying i failed.He based those that hired him and claimed it was the CIA he worked for.EL is like a chameleon in that once he learns some thing he mirrows it to the max.And as such thinks he is the real mycoy.Those pictures on DarkOperations about Val.That was a waitress in Romania that he claimed was some one else’s ex wife that he was now in love with.Those are the type of lies he told.The storys about being in Honduras,and having a new wife and the kids.LOL>
    Than he ends up running from one of his kids to the next and being throw out daily.All the while talking about the CIA and the FBI and how they wnat him dead.That is the type of delusion he comes out with.He spews it well.What than happens is that.
    The person in contact with him is tapped for some thing.When they are not forth coming,all the accusations spew out.That is who he is.A liar that that will use and abuse anyone for anything.That is how every relationship ends with him.That includes every writer ect carder he has ever come into contact with.A self serving moaner that Thinks that he did the right thing after TG by always trying to save people from crime.What a laugh!He took another gig as i just posted and boy was he proud.It was like “hey look at me”.I again did the research and found out yes he did go there but it was not the CIA like he claimed.Now was it run by a EX CIA guy.That is posaable as all these spooks do work in private companys after they retire.

    That is also why Gollum got only 6 years,and after he splits from prison gets no more time and is sent back to a camp.The reason is the DA knows the Feds messed up and though Gollum did the dirty on them,he still gets a low sentence.

    We think we have given you enough at this point.The post above was sent prior to reading you some what calmed down approach.

    Do the email thing im sure it would help.

56. By mac on May 12, 2009

    Arrested on a Friday at a Western Union for use of a fraudulent ID while while transferring cash by a local PD.
    Bailed the following Monday. Received a court date to appear. Court date delayed by the local PD to conduct investigation - waiver signed waiving right to speedy trial.
    Court date set for August 2004. That date was delayed by court.

    Then October 2004 the feds filed two superseding indictments and the rest is public history. I have an original state issued indictment. Because you got sucked into El Mariachi’s lie factory at TG you most likely have his Operation Firewall indictment from October.

    Not we were sucked in anywere.There is the crux and it explains some thing.How are you the only person i know that has OTFS state record.I have never seen it and it was in no Federal records anywere.
    As i said prior if as you say and it looks True.That is was First a State case and than morphed into a Federal case as it did.NO one knew about that local arrest and that was always are point.It was not EL did not tell is we looked at the Federal records time and time again.We find OTF in NJ in Firewall and than its sent to Ohio.Nothing unusual there.
    Than a year later the Citi case appears on the docket.No metion prior ever of the Citi case ever.That is why i banged on about this.Cause from what we saw.We saw OTF arrested in may 2004 and yet no court date.WE never looked in the State courts and we thought as the release said,arrested in may 2004 and no other words about it till late 2005.If as you say there was a arrest and he was bailed.This is do know.He was arrested at WU.Than the Feds search his house a day later and find 200k in cash along with other shit.That point in may the Feds were involved and everyone knew Investigating wise that Firewall was going and he as a player,right?
    Yet he appears in a state court and gets bail.At that point they knew about the 500k in total and that would have meant would have had a far higher bail.Yet he left and was bailed on his own bail and no real conditions.One can conclude they did not want him to know about Firewall.I can buy that.
    If he hada told some people that he was arrested than IMO some other people would never have being arrested.
    I will say again as you will answer some points and ignore others.You posted on wired about Mac and Kidd and emails accounts includng ziplip.This is not shit that EL posted you did it it to rebutt the story that Kidd was a plant,and SC a set up from the get go.I am on your side as i dont buy that bullshit either.
    As you post you have to back your posts up,and thats when you let slip some information.Like the email accounts.Only some one from way back in the day has that type of information.Some one that has all the shit backed up like DDT did and like EL did and like you do.See like that slip up,by talking about OTF you posted about the State case.IT helps your case as it helps me see what happened.The question is how you know and no one else did?Are you saying the case in Ohio in may 2004 was a local news story?If it was how come no one but you knew about it?I will tell you why?
    I still think that DDT was some one from SC?He had like you do way to much insight.I also thought that DDT was a some one that was trying to right some wrong.You come along years after the fact and are Strong on the SC admins being some what clean so to speak.We are sure that you are one of two people.I dont do the EL thing,were you tell me some thing and i post it.We had posts all the time from people over the years.Many from people we knew prior.Never ever did we betray them.Like EL and DDT did.Take the chap busted by Crisis.He contacted EL and what did EL do?EL posted his whole case as it was going on,and caused the chap all types of grief.A young man confused and busted his life on the line.El takes him in and posts his whole story out there all t make him look like a Top Dog.

    Believe it or not.That guy is in this blog asking about EL.WHY?He still likes him as EL did his magic on him to.That is amazing that some one who betrays your trust in a very public way,all so EL and DDT could make a post about Rats and make them look good.That chap still likes EL and forgives him.That is how good EL is.He has the ability to make you feel sorry for him.Than the lies start and the demands and the aming you feel guilty.EL has done this all his life.My point was that is not me.If you tell me some thing i keep it were it is.Take LC have all his information and i have never posted it anywere,yet!

    He also verifys what i say as to may others.El is MIA for a good while now.He is not Obnon on Carders that i am sure off.One thing i concur on.It is odd that right after DM went down he went MIA.No one had heard a word.I do find that strange.If another security company thought he was off use ,than that could explain were he went.That would explain why he is MIA.I find it hard to see who would trust him as he is so knowing as seld serving and also will not do as the job requires.That is the read i get.So who would take a chance putting him into anything that has inportant information in there.AS he always keeps information that is not his.He than posts it for everyone to see.

    Lastly MS was outted by Ice on Carders aftre he hacked all the boards.No one believed him so those are them facts.

57. By Robert on May 12, 2009

    I “know” because it’s all public information. Once the feds indict someone like an OTF, they can then take their time building the case. That requires a lot of time spent researching the full extent of the fraud, the amount of moneys involved, all calculated to the dollar. I say that once OTF was indicted the lawyer in his case filed for and received a motion to combine BOTH his cases, the Citi indictment and the Firewall indictment, to be tried in Ohio. That is not only a perfectly normal tactic but a good one used by his lawyer. Once the feds had him on the ropes, they could take the time they needed to ensure the indictment was a COMPLETE one and a SOUND case.

    Your “persecution” of OTF seems entirely based on your inability to understand his indictment proceedings. Simply put the public record proves that OTF was NOT arrested by the feds but by a local PD, who had their case taken away when the feds stepped in October of 04. To me, it makes perfect sense the case continued to snowball and more and more evidence came to light, and the fact that SUPERSEDING indictments were continually being handed down, meaning that as EVIDENCE grew SO DID THE CHARGES!

    Given the numerous instances of snitches operating out of TG and the El Mariachi camp, and the fact El Mariachi never revealed those until pulling the rug out from under the likes of you, I question your ability to recognize anyone as a TRUE informant without relying on the spoon-fed misinformation provided by Thomas.

    Your constant fixation on DDT has gone beyond insanity - DDT was either El Mariachi or one of El’s sick cohorts. The timeline for DDT appearance DISPROVES that he was any of the 28 original indicted members of SC (but doesn’t rule out someone connected to the site). That leaves a HUGE range of possibilities - INCLUDING yourself, since now by your own admission you were VERY connected to both camps.

    The EL Mariachi camp still has a multitude of snitches operating Especially “Lord Cyric”.

    On CJ I knew he was arrested, August 2003. And never once did the arrest or indictment (if it was in fact a secret indictment) become public - because no public record was made. That is how a TRUE informant is established. He was put to work by the feds and when the feds finished their investigation, he would have disappeared without ANYONE ever knowing his name. EVER. But only because he, being the career criminal he is, got caught continuing to commit crimes, THAT and only that, led to him being indicted. The press release makes it clear not only what crimes he committed, but the fact he was also working under cover for the feds.

    Now how do you explain any of the original 28 indicted members of SC as being undercover informants? How did the feds plan to use them as informant with their names and nics made so public, that no carder or carding board would have anything to do with them?

    Thomas write a huge amount of lies about MacGyver being a snitch, yet Mac spent more time in prison prior to Operation Firewall and after Operation Firewall. He spent most of 2003 in prison during the height of SC. All the time Thomas was screaming what a snitch Mac was, we learn retroactively that is was no one but THOMAS HIMSELF who was THE main informant (besides from CJ).

    So here you are telling us about Thomas’s life in Romania and afterward, which brings us nearly to the present. You sound like you and Thomas are quite chummy, to have this much knowledge of him and of such a personal nature.

58. By Robert on May 12, 2009

    To quote you:

    “I will say again as you will answer some points and ignore others.You posted on wired about Mac and Kidd and emails accounts includng ziplip.This is not shit that EL posted you did it it to rebutt the story that Kidd was a plant,and SC a set up from the get go.I am on your side as i dont buy that bullshit either.”

    I’m confused by your claim - I don’t recall saying this anywhere. I read it from the TG and archives that came from TG, but I don’t have anything to do with emails to or from El, Kidd or anyone else from SC. I don’t even see where this article is or where you took this from.

    I do think El was off in loony land when he claimed he knew who Kidd was and that he knew Kidd was an infosec member, and that Kidd somehow created SC just to look into the fraud markets, or was working with the feds from the get-go. That is just insane dribblings from a lunatic idiot, who was pushing that agenda to prove how devious the FBI or other fed agnecys were/are. I think Kidd was nothing more than a college aged carder who vanished or faded away as the site grew in directions he didn’t perceive or want to remain involved in. College kids are the number one demographic behind carding and many of them drop all interest in carding as they move on with their lives.

    The name “Richard Stiles” only out because El found a post from SC claiming that Kidd used that as his name for emails. Kidd knew he helped create a board to promote criminal activity and wasn’t dumb enough to use his own real name as an email address as part of that board. And if El is to be believed, and MacGyver was an informant ever since their mutual arrest, then why wasn’t the real “Richard Stiles” arrested or indicted as part of Operation Firewall, since he was the SOLE creator of the site. Deck and all the rest only inherited it from Kidd.

    My take on this: Kidd chose an alias “Richard Stiles”, in the early days of SC, had long faded from the “scene” by the time El uncovered that email name, then El searches long and hard, as part of his vendetta and rhetoric, to find a citizen in Boston who has that name that also happens to work in IT security for a university in Boston. If I were that Richard Stiles I’d be suing Thomas.

    Then again, Thomas has been exposed for being a fraud and career criminal, whose version of “truth” has always been designed to promote his own agenda.

59. By Robert on May 13, 2009

    CJ messed up - caught continuing his fraud with his gang - all those “pending” indictments would have otherwise vanished. You only know about them after the fact because they feds removed the protection he had from his being an informant. He caught all his original charges plus the new ones the feds threw at him.

    That doesn’t change my position or the truth of my statements - CJ would have been scott free had he kept his nose clean and finished his undercover tasks. But because he didn’t all those original charges from 2003 came back to haunt him.

    JD’s real identity (Steven Lance Roberts), by Thomas’s OWN ADMISSION, was fully known to himself and his FBI handlers, from his undercover “King Op” (El set him up by supplying Citibank pins to JD for cashing out). YEARS later after being charged, we find him in a PROTECTIVE CUSTODY status at MDC Brooklyn - where the “snitches” go when they are assisting the US Attorney (my guess would be his is testifying against other suspects).

    You say:
    “his last gig was in Romania set up by a security company that he was fired from”

    Carder.su is just such a web site - it’s primary operator is Romanian. The site also features an extensive “English Carder” section - just as did all the “famous” carding boards of the past few years. It’s a carbon copy clone of Shadowcrew, Carderplanet, & DarkMarket. The Romanian “Department of Counterfeiting Organized Criminality” has requested and received recent substantial law enforcement help in cracking down on international fraud stemming from Romania. I find it interesting you say Thomas was in Romania but “fired” from his job. One can imagine fired for pulling his old fraud routine behind his handlers backs, or for being a pathological liar, or tipping off his old cohorts about the pending stings - the same old El, scamming the police and scamming the scammers.

    The Romanian secret police must have realised they don’t have the mental health care expertise to handle a lunatic out to promote his own agenda at the expense of his LE employers.

    FYI - you are making too many assumptions the state knew what someone like OTF was doing when they first got arrested. State and Federal are two separate court systems. The state would not have known of the extent of the fraud until the feds became involved. The state made no mention at all of Shadowcrew or ATM fraud. I believe they didn’t know. Not until the feds took over the case do they indict, first for conspiracy (SC) then for the Bank Fraud, which became merged into one case. That is how I interpret the charges.

    I see very similar circumstance in the charges for Deck - his initial Operation Firewall indictment only had one charge for criminal conspiracy on it. The second indictment included “fraud with identification documents” . Then it was expanded (by superseding indictments) to include the extent of his Citibank fraud. Remember Deck is the suspect that the feds had wiretapped and placed a hidden camera in his room to record his activity. But the indictment only put him on the rope for the conspiracy charge initially. The reason is easily understood when you familiarize yourself with federal criminal proceedings - the indictment gets the ball rolling for the conspiracy and takes the suspect off the street. Since they had to remove all of the suspects in “one fell swoop” they couldn’t wait around until they had fully investigated each and every member. They had to lump them all together (for the conspiracy) then arrest them as one mass - THEN began the task of fully indicting each suspect for ALL the criminal activity they were aware of or learned of from having seized their computers or other physical evidence. THAT’S what the superseding indictment is for.

    Others who had pending states charges were Framd323 and Scarface (in Florida).

    But don’t tell a raving lunatic like El Mariachi, he chooses to see ghosts and hear voices.

    I’ll leave you with this, a quote from yourself:

    “LC no one know’s for sure what his role was anywere he was a ol skooler for the phone hack days.
    He never used security up to DM his real name and id is well known and yet never busted.”

    More of your BS, and more proof the real informants were all so very well known to the FBI. While El was screaming “look over there!”, or maybe he was screaming “Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!” we see that behind the magic curtain all the real snitches huddled together.

    PS - every time El crawls out from his rock I’ll be waiting to offer rebuttals to his lunacy. If you want to complain about why this is coming out “years late” then ask Thomas, as he wont let it go (this rebuttal started as a reply to David’s comments from 8/08). I’ve been posting here since 2006 because SOMEONE has to keep David’s record straight (He wouldn’t tell you the truth if his life depended on it).

60. By OK on May 28, 2009

    If i post that LC is well known,than how is that hiding who he is and helping Els adgenda?

61. By Robert on Jun 7, 2009

    What I said was if El, You, JD, and every swinging dick on TG knew who LC was in real life, and EL and JD were major informants for the FBI, then how is it LC doesn’t get busted, in fact he goes on to administrate CardersMarket?

    You want us to believe LC was too small a fry for the FBI to bother going after? LOL, after all that smack talking, carding, fraud, and scamming he did (or allegedly did) on TG and every other carding site out there?

    The only reason LC didn’t get busted is because he was part of Thomas’s crew of informants and/or an agent of one of the bureaus. The RCMP works hand in hand with the US feds.

62. By LOL on Jun 8, 2009

    We never knew who LC was till in the last while we got his details.We say he is some type of CI no doubt.
    You know the more i read of you the less i get.You seem to argue about all the things we agree about.
    Let me say this.
    You say the likes of Appleyard was no good as a Rat as his name was on the indictment.
    He was indicted again in the Western District of new York.So he had two case’s going at once.
    Yet he got no time!
    That was not as you say cause he was outted as busted.That being your standard speel.
    In his plea agreement it clearly states that he Helped the Feds from the minute he was arrested.Now you can argue that cause he was Known busted he was not A Rat.
    He was a Rat in that he was talking woth the Feds when ever they wanted and he was doing what ever it is they asked.That may have meant he was not say on a Board doing a El.He was none the less doing the Rat thing by doing a deal with the Feds.
    Seen as i think you are Appleyard i can say hi Rat!
    You are no Joe im pissed at El as you say you our.You are some one that is pissed cause you Feel that you have being outted as a Rat.Why else would you on one hand Defend a Criminal like OTF.On the other blast El cause he was loose with the Facts.It does not stand up my little Rat so piss of bavk to the rat hole!

63. By LOL on Jun 8, 2009

    The detail you use about Kidd and Mac could never have come from reading TG and Els boards.

    Come on down and out your self you rat.

64. By LOL on Jun 8, 2009

    LC was a admin on DM get the facts right and yes that was run by the FBI after MS got the server.

65. By Robert on Jun 9, 2009

    You are completely retarded.

    El Mariachi had the entire SC database up and running on “thegrifters.net” and “darkoperations.net”. He had made every single private message available. He even wrote a blog piece on Kidd and how Kidd used an email service that had his alleged real name (Rick Stiles).

    The feds must have had to intervene and pull the two sites offline and my guess is because El, the raging ego-maniac he is, was giving away highly sensitive background information. Why do I think the feds had to get involved, and not a case of El taking down his own sites? BECAUSE every Google page cached from those two sites is NO LONGER AVAILABLE from Google web search. DELETED. GONE. “INTERVENED”.

    You can still see the search results but try to click on “cache” - GONE.

    Then you come slinky around claiming “oh no, it was never on El’s site, you must be some secret insider!” LOL! Nice cover up, ass.

    It was ALL available on El’s site. Including all the indictments, including every web site he or the feds managed to steal or copy a database from.

    I know you are ragging on about the indicted SC admins claiming they were all in on it, yet if that were the case then why didn’t the proven and known informants ALSO get indicted? No indictments on El, LC, JD, CJ, Decepgal, or Gollumfun. It took 2 of those informants to get busted YET AGAIN WHILE WORKING UNDERCOVER to finally be indicted.

    Look at John Dillinger’s recent court records - you’ll see what a REAL INFORMANT looks like.

    Show me the part of BO’s plea agreement you find “outs” him as a rat. Because his plea (provide by El Mariachi and posted on TG/DO) shows NOTHING to the effect he was providing any sort of information to the feds.

    It includes the STANDARD plea agreement language to the effect that defendant is to inform the court of any ongoing criminal activity. EVERYONE who has ever signed a guilty plea agreement has that paragraph in their plea. It’s boilerplate, legalese designed to cover the court’s ass.

    I will upload a copy of BO’s plea agreement.
    Then the world will see how 100% full of BS you and El Mariachi are. You made a big deal out of nothing, it’s a straightforward standard plea agreement contract.

    BO’s plea agreement (you will have to fix the url) - courtesy of El Mariachi and his top secret hidden admin board that apparently only OTF/BO ever had access to (Wait a sec - weren’t they enemies? LOL! More like HALF the FREAKING WORLD had access to it, just the way El Mariachi wanted it!):

    w w w.geocities.com/jdillinger76/

    Scroll down about half a paragraph for the case file.

66. By Robert on Jun 9, 2009

    I wonder why you are running such a cover up for DECEPGAL???

    After re-reading your posts, you went overboard trying to deny she had ran any sting site or had anything to do with being an informant.

    WRONG on all accounts!

    First - she IS an United States citizen (you denied she was). She is a resident of the state of Florida. Her name (that she was indicted under) is Diane M. Avery, her SSN ends in 2223, and her previous address (that she filed for bankruptcy under) is:
    1830 Ninth Street, N. #210
    Saint Petersburg, Florida 33704
    After she was set up in a sting operation by her “close” friend El Mariachi (David Renshaw Thomas) she then goes on to run 2 sting boards for the feds:
    Muzzfuzz.com and Cardercrew.com

    She was a MAJOR informant and one of the ones you and El Mariachi have since been covering up for.

    It’s funny, because the entire time she and El were squabbling, they both exposed each other for the rats that they were.

    Oh, and don’t bother trying to find her Shadowcrew indictment, even though she was an ADMIN, she NEVER got indicted. The only indictment/records in the system are for malicious tampering with her employers computer system and several case files for her bankruptcy - which magically were discharged the same time she went to work for the feds!

    So laugh about that, LOL!

67. By LC THE COP IS BACK on Jun 11, 2009

    whats up Lord Cyric
    yea you’re LORD CYRIC, rat/fed/snitch/informant/ and petty crook.

    didnt think we’d smell you out?

    been hiding since your king rat boy El Mariachi (aka Davey Lunatic) went back to snitch for carders.su?

    LORD CYRIC (aka LOL, OK, mac, Jebus, Lastcomment@.com, NP, Do Tell, wellcome home, So What?, and the 50 other nics he’s using on this little blog)

    you ever gonna come back and finish your little snitch rant on hxxp://afterlife.wordpress.com/2006/07/12/carding-web-sites/ LC?

    YOUR NIC ‘LORD CYRIC’ IS LAUGHED AT BY EVERYONE IN THE SCENE, AND YOU DO NOT SHOW UP UNDER IT ANYWHERE BUT TROLL ALLEYS LIKE THIS ONE. You TROLL the boards now. I dare you to come out on the carding boards now under your rat/snitch alias LC now bitch.

    WTF Robert you didnt know you was wasting your time arguing with a known cop?

68. By LC THE COP IS BACK on Jun 11, 2009

    Lord Cyric, since we know this is you, answer this simple question, how do Mariachis nuts taste?

    this is so effin funny to see El’s faithful LC still trolling the back boards long after it has come to light that he was a BIG PLAYER AND RIGHT HAND MAN to THE cunt CI HIMSELF!

    YOU WERE THE BIGGEST YES-MAN PUSSY THE SCENE EVER SAW. YOU LIVED ON EL MARIACHIS NUTS AND THAT YOU CAN NEVER LIVE DOWN.

    and here LC is still going on about SC admins, the ones set up by snitches like himself, El/Pasha, or cumba.

    LC you want to know who the snitches are LOOK IN THE MIRROR

69. By LC THE COP IS BACK on Jun 11, 2009

    all the while Lord Cyric was calling all the sc admins and iceman snitches he was running the biggest sting of all from FBI computers

    like anyone is going to listen to LC’s BUUUUUUUULLLLLLLLLLSSHIIITTTTT now!

    El and LC are both CIs. Both well known now for this.

    Take everything Lord Cyric (aka LOL) said above and flip it around and only then do you get the TRUTH!

    ICEMAN was the shit, LC is the snitch!

70. By LC THE COP IS BACK on Jun 11, 2009

    oh and Robert, the reason LC could see your IP is coz he’s a COP!!!!!

71. By Robert on Jun 13, 2009

    That’s interesting “LC the cop is back”, It did cross my mind this might be Lord Cyric. After looking at the link to the other blog one can certainly see that this is LC.

    LC has a habit of labeling all his detractors as feds or snitches, one can see how he uses this tactic in the debate between himself and Iceman (LC being in support of El Mariachi). They called Iceman everything and everyone from a Fed to Dev to Imperium to Black Rain to DDT. The end result of these debates always ends up with everyone getting arrested with the exception of El Mariachi and Lord Cyric.

    Both Mariachi and Cyric imply that Iceman was a snitch when running Cardersmarket to still being a snitch after getting arrested. I fail to see their logic in making such claims. When the busts happen, its easy to see who the real snitches are.

    I’d be interested in hearing more from you “LC the cop is back”, do you have an email you can be reached at?

72. By Robert on Jun 14, 2009

    “LC THE COP IS BACK”,
    You can reach me at 3HHYdxkms44@mailinator.com for the next 24 hours. Please contact me asap as I have several important questions for you.

    BTW Lord Cyric, your boy and former fellow TGN admin “John Dillinger” aka Steven Lance Robert is continuing his testifying at MDC Brooklyn with the attorney’s office.

73. By I am not LC or EL on Jun 30, 2009

    I am not LC or EL get that straight.

    LC and EL both had huge ego’s and both on all blogs admitted when the posted.You think either EL or LC if this was them would not admit it.
    LC is also quiet since DM went my guess is if he was a CI or Rat his time is up.

    As others have said in this Blog.EL is MIA since last year.WHY no one i know has a clue.Could he be working at ratting again.Sure he could

    I have posted what I THOUGHT thats it.

    That at some points i agreed with EL does not detract that i called LC a CI OR what ever he is when SC went down.

    That is long before everyone else did.Like everyone i made some errors in that i ever bought into ELS shit.

    LC hated us and who we are.LC called us a Rat everyday for years so you calling me him is sick.I am sure he is reading this laughing his tits off.Yea he has man boobs the fat fuck.

    I made that mistake.Do not take that mistake for anything else.
    Were am i defending EL OR LC in my posts.

    No were that is no were.I still think LC is bogus.How he is Bogus is the question.IS he a COP or A CI OR what.
    I found a lot of shit on LC and he does go back to the early days online.In those day’s he acted just like he did on DM.That was a arrogant no it all person that faught with anyone that he felt like.Drama was his goal.
    Drama is also some thing LE love we all know that.

    I am sick of trying to answer questions you ask EL as i am not him i cannot answer.

    You ask about Decepgal and why El he protected her?That is straight bullshit.Look at all the Blogs he saw Decepgal in his sleep and was always on her case as to her being a Rat.I do not see what you are talking bout there.

    SC and you claiming EL had the whole SC base on DP.You are wrong again.What he had was the partial hacked database that Cardingking hacked back in 02 or some thing.
    DDT had that copy and also the deznutz shit as well and gave all that to EL to put on TG.Maybe you should be wondering How DDT got hold of Deznutz as that was a Admin board only access able by Admins and Mods.The SC database was exactly as i said. It waa In- complete and was only part of the database.So again you are just not correct.

    Some one said Iceman well yesterday he Was in Court and had a sealed plea.He was in PA which is were NCFTA was and has being talking with the Feds for a long time now.So while ne may have being kosher i agree on that he is no longer kosher.HE is a Rat.

    Blackops yes there is no 51k in there.The facts he had two cases one in NJ and one in NY.The NY one should have got him at least two years.He got probation on both.OK you wanna think he is not talking and did not co-operate.That is on you.I may not hav e explained the whole Court System in detail.The basic’s our ,unless you are Innocent or your sentence after all the points, is so low that you do not have to co-operate.Than 90% co-operate as they know if They do not the Feds will hammer you and you do all kinds of time.Despite your pleas of other wise.Most of the people i metion co-operated.
    What i do not get is the minuate you defend.
    You say you are some “joe innocent” that hates EL.
    I saw your posts on Wired as “truthgiver” i am sure it is you.That person all so had emails from ziplip and other old places.Shit that El never posted.Also facts about Kidd and all those ol guys.
    What i do not get is that you are defending All the Admins from SC and saying they all took there bids.That is just so not true.
    The information and your understanding off all of this could not have come from just reading Els boards.No fucking way as the detail on some people is not there.
    Yet you have insight and know so much.SO you are in no way exactly Honest yourself.
    I still think you are from back than and are one of those people i metion.Defending your ego so to speak.

    Lastly you guys are so outta the LOOP.

    Read Wired and you will see or if you were on any board you would also know this.
    El and LC parted ways a few years back.
    I have never seen LC slag himself of as i am doing to him in these posts.
    EL and LC were done as LC moved onto what ever and EL went and did what he did.Which was “god knows what”

    Were did i say i knew Roberts IP?

    Robert made a post and said it never showed up here and asked was the Admin moderating posts.I think i said some thing about IPS showing.Robert asked was i the Admin or some thing.I have nothing to do with this site,other than i post.

    I did say that LC posted on most boards from a Static IP in Canada and never used proxys.Go figure.

    This is simple there were some posts made over the years about various people i agree with.
    You have made some posts i agree with and some i do not.How does that make me some follower of EL or LC.

    You know i change my mind.You say JD is talking.He could well be.What has he to offer that is my question?He is no admin and was a low level casher.If he was doing another deal that it would be done soon,no?

    Here it is

    LC a Rat or some thing not Good
    EL A RAT
    Decepgal you say a Rat and so did EL i do not see the arguement there myself.

    I am more than willing to share with you LCS name address and phone number.
    His IP list from accessing boards for years
    A shed load of PMS between him and anyone that contacted him over the years.

    You are saying i am doing what LC did by calling everyone else a Rat.
    Are you not doing the same?
    This started cause i saw your posts.
    You accused me first of being EL and now i am LC.This is the same shit both of them did.

    I accused you of being one or two people thats it.
    You seem un able to accept that because i agree with a few of ELS posts i am him.
    You see you are missing so much.Yea you seem to have your Opinion from what the fact i think you were on SC.
    You than have all of the shit on TG and Els boards.You are missing all the People like me that called all of the out after SC went down.
    WE banged on and on about How as EL posting about Pins and Ops with no worry about getting busted.EL and his answer was “wait a while” im no rat and on it went.
    While everyone else was up LC and his fat ass we were attacking them all the time.
    At some point you move on and we did just that got sick of all the bullshit and had nothing to do with any of it.
    That is were we are at today.

    I said my bit you do not beleive it thats fine to.

74. By I am not LC or EL on Jun 30, 2009

    Were is this Decepgal shit From?

    See there ya go?EL and LC banged on about her for years that she was a Rat.Were as i was not that sure.That was minly cause of some shit that went down that made me think she was not a Rat.
    But LC and EL were right by you on this to the point that EL implacted here in a chapter of his book.He put her right in the middle of a crime.Man he was so sure like you she was a Rat.
    I also like you Now agree that She is a Rat.

    Iceman.Ice said after his arrest that he had being on SC and various boards.
    Ice shows up On CM with all these old timer ID heads.Yet he claims at the time he knows no one and all of a sudden he opens a board.He asks on all kinds of rats like Gollum.That was the Height of the Shit after SC.I also thought CM was a set up.After a while i relised he was legit.
    SO yes many of the accusations about him at that time were bogus.Ice did him self no favors either.
    Than CM gos down and Ice is outted as Max.Than it turns out Max worked for the FBI>
    it is now very easy to say he is a Rat and always was.Though that was not the case.
    As i posted above Ice pleaded guilty yesterday in a sealed plea.He should get about 50 years.The bets are now on he will get about 8.He is in a few with the 10@ automatic time off he will be out in a few years.No so bad for some one that as you Say not a Rat.Yet your pet hate JD a Rat you say gets 9 years.OK
    Ice is now a Rat and that is a Fact.Do i agree with it no i do not.I can see why it occurs.The poster that alluded that Ice was Kool should melt of as he has Ratted everyone and than some out.He is in NCFTA backyard and has being for 18 months.Top it of.The DA walked up to him in court and” smiled and shook his hand”.
    There ya go enough said.

    I just do not understand why we are arguing over what in my eyes are some minor issues.The biggest being who each poster is.I made it clear what i think and who i am not.I am not LC OR EL.

75. By I am not LC or EL on Jun 30, 2009

    Robert it is Funny you are using that name.

    Is it because you are Trying to suggest you are Robertac?RC was also some one who attacked both LC and EL for a long time before you.

    LC attacked RC for years calling him a CI and so on.Out if no were we have another Robert doing what RC used to do.

    Whom ever Robert is he is not Robertac,thats for fucking sure.

76. By Robert on Jun 30, 2009

    Attacked El? Don’t you mean calling Dave Renshaw Thomas out for being a hypocrtical lunatic, ranting as he does against the evil “shadowcrew” (all the while he himself was a scamming and theiving), and was himself a snitch while trying to double-cross his FBI handlers?

    http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2008/09/notorious-crime/comment-page-2/#comments

    El mariachi (Dave Renshaw Thomas) is commenting all over that piece, using multiple nics and replying to his own comments under various aliases (much like he did on Thegrifters or Darkoperations). It’s his usualy tactic of setting up his own replies. Be sure to look up the second page of comments where he replies under the nics “General Cha0, Dark Magus, and as anonymous. He engages in this sort of behaviour? Only someone severely emontionally challanged. It’s because of pages and pages of complete fabrications by “El Mariachi” and his multiple use of aliases to reply to his own comments that caused me to consider YOU to be yet another version of Thomas.

    I began posting in this topic only to dispel the myth invented by Thomas that only those individuals he named, from the Firewall indictments, were the “snitches”, when in fact he purposefully left all the real informants names off (which I imagine was his real goal) - to obfuscate who he was still connected to and were still snitching.

    Here is a more complete list of Shadowcrew admins that were NEVER indicted:

    Decepgal - Diane Avery (also admin on TGN, ran her own board Muzzfuzz.com and Cardercrew.com)
    El Mariachi - David Renshaw Thomas (yes, he was an admin for a brief while, as well as an admin on Carderplanet)
    Midhack - left before the SHTF
    Kidd - left long before the SHTF
    Gemini - Steve Cancel (also hosted the site)
    Gollumfun - Brett Johnson
    Cumbajohnny - Albert Gonzalez
    Script - Dmitry Golubov
    (did I miss any?)

    Now of all these names we know who was snitching since the government was forced to tell us - Cumbajohnny and Gollumfun. Forced becasue they got caught commiting new crimes while under indictment (oOtherwise they would never have been publicaly revealed). We know El was snitching (and most likely the very first to do so by his own admission in articles he wrote). Midhack left early on so escaped the fallout. Ditto Kidd. But then Thomas gets wierdly quiet on the remaining Admin. Why no accusations of snitching against Decepgal (except in small measure on TGN long after the fact)? None against Gemini? None against Script, although he is a special case being in Russia and “mostly” beyond the reach of the FBI.

    It was Decpegal who in her role as Admin on Shadowcrew gave Mariachi his “backdoor” access to the admin panel and Dez-nuts (Decks hidden forum). Was she also part of Deck’s other hidden forum “Intraforum”? El was himself an admin for a short period, especially on Carderplanet.

    Now look at who got El Mariachi BOOTED from those sites, exposing him as an informant - it was Black Ops, MacGyver, JimR, and Onthefridge (although many others did join in, in calling El out as a snitch). Those were who El Mariachi’s “enemies” were, as referenced in the Wired articles. King Arthur kicked him off Carderplanet as a result of his exposed FBI/SS connections. They hated him on Shadowcrew and never relented on exposing his comments to the Washington State police about being an informant and demanding to see the Secret Service. Yet afterwards for years he would rant about JimR being a cop, and that every one of his accusers were the “true” informants. The facts have spoken, and the truth revealed. His accusers were “thieves, carders, and hackers”, but we can rule out their being snitches. Public indictments have a powerful way of ensuring none of these fellows were going to be a “snitch”.

    This is why “El Mariachi” has been fabricating accusations against them, as “payback”.

    Only after the FBI fired Thomas from his snitching gig did he try to burn them and expose other informants (Gollumfun, Decepgal)or bring in reporters to his FBI-ran Grifters website. Apparently that too was “payback”. Thomas even went so far as to claim TheGrifters was “converted” to a sting, when it was created by the FBI from day one as a sting.

    Now you wonder how I know some of this? Every bit of this (including the “secret” Shadowcrew database ‘private messages’ was posted on TheGrifters by El Mariachi or John Dillinger or DDT. I do make mistakes time to time, as I simply don’t live, breath, and eat “carding”, and some of this info gets confusing or taxes my memory.

    Want to know how I kept myself in the loop? By buttering up the biggest EGO in all frauddom. “Oh it’s a great book El”, or “I can design you a cover all for free”, or “Can I interview you for my workplace El?”. Obviously, YOU were there “LC”. Can you guess who I am now?

    I do work for a telecom that also happens to be an ISP. My co. received numerous complaints about a certain carding web site that was “spamming” (it wasn’t, it was just a joejob). I participated in looking into the matter which is what led me to join all the “carding sites” (right about the time Shadowcrew started, but quickly led me to numerous sites at the time). Joining and “posing” was easy. It was also easy to suck up to the raging ego’s involved (namely El’s) to really gain insight. I could never have gotten into SC (and never did) but thankfully having a relationship with El kept me aware of some privy details of what went on there.

    Do you think this is BS? Well, had I described Ethics (Nicholos Lee Jacobsen) an employee of T-mobile who, thorugh his job, uncovered Shadowcrew related documents through one of that companies subscriber’s accounts as a means of finding Shadowcrew, you might also think that highly implausible. But telecom companies see some strange things on their customer’s accounts, and you better believe it all gets forwarded to the Feds or looked into by our own teams. If you’re a subscriber and you get kicked from the service, consider yourself lucky that’s as far as it went.

    My details all came from El Mariachi and his assortment of web sites. He ran so many short-lived boards all with the goal of either committing online fraud or with the goal of “paying back” the Feds for firing him from his snitching gig.

    The list of Dave Renshaw Thomas/Mariachi ran sites includes:

    Anticarder.org
    Cardercrew.com (jointly with Decepgal)
    Darkoperations.net (became TheGrifters.net)
    Darkprofits.com
    FEDwatch
    IAACAsucks.com
    Metalshop.org
    muzzfuzz.com (jointly with Decepgal)
    Shadowcrewthebook.com (the design literally ripped off an MSNBC’s reporters web site)
    TheGrifters.net
    Theuin.org

    All these sites held largely the same information, or carried over the same forum databases. Now that’s a lot of web sites, all to carry out a vendetta against the very federal police he begged to come and work for! I can see why he might have had to “disappear”, if he began divulging priveleged information he was liable for under his deal with the FBI. I hope now you can also see where my utter contempt for Thomas comes from - his complete bullshit, his lies, his hypocrisy. First he is a major snitch (took down Bigbuyer I believe), then he wants to snitch on the snitches after being exposed, then he’s back to being a snitch or covering for some snitches while trying to burn others.

    I can’t speak for the federal police, but I think they are as sick of him as the “carders” are.

    Now about DDT - I’m glad you mentioned “cardingKing” although it’s really “CCKing”. He is the very soul who “hacked” the Shadowcrew database and provided that to El Mariachi. Was he “DDT”? CCKing hails from the midwestern USA, although he put up a good front he was from London and/or Australia. From just the information I’ve collected (sorry no secret back doors here), the database that was hacked came from a period when Shadowcrew resided on “Gemini’s” web server (Gemini - see above names of those not indicted) - up to about 2003. Gemini in real life is “Steven Cancel”. CCking exploited the shared server to gain access, and then forwarded the database backup - not to the usual location but to his own FTP server, where he could retrieve it after the nightly backup occured. The FTP address was the giveaway, it’s still buried in the CCKing/SC database floating in cyberspace, it also happened to be “DDT’s” speciality. Oops that! That may well explain the mind games from CCKing. Now if it were an Admin on SC, “stealing” the database (why would they need to steal it if they already own it?), the copy would have been far more recent, and a complete copy, not the hatchet job Mariachi posted on TGN, or the same hatchet job CCKing shared to the iRC community (read - they were the same thing). That database Thomas thought to be so exclusive sadly, was not, rather, it was only in his mind.

    Robertac - no I’m not he, and sadly I lack information about this nic to even offer a defense. I did post elsewhere as “Truth Speaker” (not Truthgiver), not that others haven’t been posting along the same lines I have been, or using the very same nic (I borrowed it myself after seeing someone use it earlier)Which one is me and which is the other guy? I have ranted under other nics on this site, an afterlife site, and of course here, I’m sure my writing style (when worked up) is a dead giveaway. I make no apologies! I stand by what I say.

    For the record I do not think you are Thomas/Mariachi (although you promulgate the very same vendetta as he). I still reserve my opinion about you being “Lord Cyric” or not, since he remains “at large”. Your offer to reveal his name to me, as interesting as it is, doesn’t mean much since you could be inventing a name and claiming that is who “LC” is. Do you remember Gollumfun being revealed as a “Nicholas Wallace” complete with bogus photograph? Or the mis-information revealing the real name of Iceman or Dev, or Raider, or of Chao, none of which ever panned out to be true. Unless you have a means to back up your claim that this is really his name (like an indictment?)

    I do have another question for you - there was an older (pre-Shadowcrew) site called “Counterfeit Library”, where someone went by the nic “Phoenix”. He posted to the web that he was betrayed by Gollumfun and the police raided his farm (somehow he escaped). This Phoenix went by the nic “Assweasel” on Shadowcrew, although he doesn’t appear until late in Shadowcrew history. Is this name familiar to you? His rage against Gollumfun paralells Lord Cyrics rage against Shadowcrew, and, simply put, your rage against Shadowcrew. Are you Phoenix?

    I’ll leave you with this - I’m not defending anyone - just tired of what appears to me purposeful misdirection by Dave Thomas, all to fulfill his vendetta and/or promote his hackish diatribe of a book. He hasn’t gone anywhere, except back to setting up his “friends” and living the life of a snitch-thief on the newest carding forums. Even the joe-jobs are back in force and the spam complaints. Trademarks of a certain snitch.

    PS:: “LC is a cop” let us please finish our conversation, I agree fully with what you said and wish to ask you more questions!

77. By Robert on Jun 30, 2009

    PPS: My “pet” hate of John Dillinger (Steven Lance Roberts has nothing to do with his crimes or even his being a snitch, but the HYPOCRISY to accuse others of being a snitch (on TGN) then to himself testify as an informant in MDC Brooklyn.

    Pot calling the kettle black, anyone?

    He was also despicable on TGN, did you not see the copy of the post I shared that detailed his involvement in “hunting down” Myth over their deal gone bad?

    Max Butler was not snitching at the time he was running CM. He made a claim he assisted LE for some earlier un-related crime. So that makes a snitch from the historical perspective. He may well be making a deal to save his skin. However that does not make El Mariachi right in any way. The fact is Iceman did not set up or run CM as a sting operation. That would be Lord Cyric and Master Splynter over at DM!

78. By lol again at lol on Jul 1, 2009

    Were have i tryed to hide on here by nics?

    A retard would relise the Nic i use each time was in response to what was said previous.

    For christs sake i admit it is me each time.Yet some idiot says i am LC and changing nics.

    Again i agree EL called out CM and was wrong.AT the end of the Day Max had worked for LE prior to CM and is now doing the same again.So while everyone was wrong about CM and i said as much on lots of boards.You would not know that as you are not privvy to them.

    Last time i am not defending anyone up to and EL.I have my opinion just like you have yours and thats my last word.

    S

79. By lol again at lol on Jul 1, 2009

    One last thing about a few things.

    Darkmagus on Wired was the real Magus and not EL and yes El posted there that is obvious as did LC.Read the posts!

    EL is MIA how many times do you need to be prooven this?I can give you a phone number to a land line in another country,not were EL lives thats for sure.Listen to my voice it is not EL.

    You are seeing el and he is not there.

80. By lol again at lol on Jul 1, 2009

    See thats just IT could not know who you were as i was not there on TG and i am not LC.

81. By Voleur on Aug 8, 2009

    “Voleur (Omar Dhanyani, who was busted for money laundering in February 27, 2003,”
    That never happened. Yet another BSer. Doing 2+ years in prison, then being released, and leaving the country leads you to believe that i’m a CI? I’m working for the secret service, who put me in prison, IN CANADA? Who do I answer to? Team America: World Police?

82. By you on Aug 27, 2009

    Omar Dhanyani aka Omar Patryn from m-gold.com and who owns VFS(Voleur Financial Services).
    He works with “Brian” from Talkgold.com, a place where almost all the scams are adversiting.

83. By sense on Aug 27, 2009

    Robert, please share with us something about Omar(Voleur). He seams that he forgot his past.
    Thanks

84. By Observer on Aug 27, 2009

    Five years later and its still going strong, eh? I hope Mack ain’t dead and I doubt he is. One person everyone keeps forgetting about is NAMELESSFACE. He appeared on scene all of a sudden and went quick to admin status. Not a word has been mentioned. Then he conveniently disappeared.

    Alls I can say is SC was a big famly until Mariachi got caught and set the ball rolling. Killed a good thing he did. Couldn’t do his time like real men so he ran his mouth. That and said so much disinformation that even he didn’t know what the truth was. The dude never could do anything right. Even beign a criminal. Wasn’t he supposed to be dying or something? Maybe that where he disappeared to. Maybe he was the one that spammed Carder Library with all the kiddy porn.

    The only thing we will know 100% is we will never know everything.

85. By Observer on Aug 29, 2009

    Whoops. Counterfeit Library.

86. By perez on Sep 5, 2009

    Patryn from Talkgold.com is Omar Voleur. There is no doubt.

87. By Big E on Sep 28, 2009

    Lord Cyric is Brian Krebs, of the Washington Post.

    As a reporter I guess he decided to play “undercover rat” who routinely crossed the line into criminal acts.

    Anything to get the story right, Brian?

    I wonder if any of the editors or writers at Wired magazine would be interested in a story about a newspaper blogger who would steal identities and credit card info in order to write blogs about people who steal identities and credit card info.

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